@kingdavid403 saidI'm not sure that "concrete evidence of spirituality" is the same as "concrete action" because of spiritual beliefs. Does not making any graven images or not coveting one's neighbour's wife, slaves and animals count as "concrete action"?
I would think that people who obey the 10 commandments, or those who obey the two commandments given by Jesus etc.; I think it looks like concreate evidence of their spirituality. Thoughts?
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@fmf saidDoes not making any graven images or not coveting one's neighbors' wife, slaves and animals count as "concrete action"?
I'm not sure that "concrete evidence of spirituality" is the same as "concrete action" because of spiritual beliefs. Does not making any graven images or not coveting one's neighbour's wife, slaves and animals count as "concrete action"?
Yes, I think so. What do you think?
@kingdavid403 saidI don't make any graven images don't covet my neighbours' "wife, slaves and animals" and I do not consider these ae "concrete actions". I don't do those things. Does being religious somehow render them "concrete actions"?
Does not making any graven images or not coveting one's neighbors' wife, slaves and animals count as "concrete action"?
Yes, I think so. What do you think?
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@fmf saidDoes being religious somehow render them "concrete actions"? Well, we know by scriptures, that 'being religious' has nothing to do with a true relationship with God.
I don't make any graven images don't covet my neighbours' "wife, slaves and animals" and I do not consider these ae "concrete actions". I don't do those things. Does being religious somehow render them "concrete actions"?
God's laws are written on everyone's heart. However, we are also born into sin in our lives on this earth. There are many non-religious people who still follow the Laws of God. There are many non-believers who are extremely good people who naturally follow God's Laws; even His main Law of Love.
I admit you have an excellent point.
Worship would be concrete evidence, or concrete action; other than that, it does seem difficult to show concrete evidence or action; especially since we all fall at times; and, we all do good at times.
@kingdavid403 saidThis thing about "a true relationship with God" is a highly ideological assertion which probably belongs on your partisan songsheet as you stand before The Choir.
Well, we know by scriptures, that 'being religious' has nothing to do with a true relationship with God.
To my way of thinking, reciting or referring to scripture about having "a true relationship with God" IS you "being religious".
But, it is your prerogative to talk about your "true relationship" if you wish: the crux of this OP topic is, however, how does this trueness manifest itself [in "concrete action"] in a way that differentiates adherents of your religion from those of others or indeed non-believers.
@fmf saidhow does this trueness manifest itself [in "concrete action"] in a way that differentiates adherents of your religion from those of others or indeed non-believers.
This thing about "a true relationship with God" is a highly ideological assertion which probably belongs on your partisan songsheet as you stand before The Choir.
To my way of thinking, reciting or referring to scripture about having "a true relationship with God" IS you "being religious".
But, it is your prerogative to talk about your "true relationship" if you wish: the ...[text shortened]... n a way that differentiates adherents of your religion from those of others or indeed non-believers.
Worship.
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@fmf said"This thing about "a true relationship with God" is a highly ideological assertion which probably belongs in"
This thing about "a true relationship with God" is a highly ideological assertion which probably belongs on your partisan songsheet as you stand before The Choir.
To my way of thinking, reciting or referring to scripture about having "a true relationship with God" IS you "being religious".
But, it is your prerogative to talk about your "true relationship" if you wish: the ...[text shortened]... n a way that differentiates adherents of your religion from those of others or indeed non-believers.
the spirituality forum where we are; in case you have forgotten. 🙂
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@kingdavid403 saidWhen talking about a topic that seeks to set aside ideology and dogma in order to take a look at concrete action [a.k.a. practical spirituality], offering, instead, a highly ideological/doctrinal assertion, probably belongs on a different thread.
"This thing about "a true relationship with God" is a highly ideological assertion which probably belongs in"
the spirituality forum where we are; in case you have forgotten. 🙂
@kingdavid403 saidIf "worship" isn't affecting others and is some sort of private meditation that you engage in, is it not a rather weak example of "concrete action"?
how does this trueness manifest itself [in "concrete action"] in a way that differentiates adherents of your religion from those of others or indeed non-believers.
Worship.
@fmf saidNo. Who or what do you worship as a non-believer?
If "worship" isn't affecting others and is some sort of private meditation that you engage in, is it not a rather weak example of "concrete action"?
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@fmf saidNah, I don't think so. I didn't assert anything; other than being religious has nothing to do with a right relationship with God; as God's Holy Word tells and shows us.
When talking about a topic that seeks to set aside ideology and dogma in order to take a look at concrete action [a.k.a. practical spirituality], offering, instead, a highly ideological/doctrinal assertion, probably belongs on a different thread.
What's concrete evidence or action of practical atheism?
@kingdavid403 saidThe fact that non-believers do not worship a God figure does not alter the fact that worship is a weak example of concrete action on the part of theists.
Who or what do you worship as a non-believer?
@kingdavid403 saidYou asserted that "being religious has nothing to do with a right relationship with God" ...which is a quintessentially religious assertion.
Nah, I don't think so. I didn't assert anything; other than being religious has nothing to do with a right relationship with God; as God's Holy Word tells and shows us.
@kingdavid403 saidGod's Holy Word tells and shows us
Nah, I don't think so. I didn't assert anything; other than being religious has nothing to do with a right relationship with God; as God's Holy Word tells and shows us.
What other "concrete action" does what you call "God's Holy Word" tell you to engage in?