Religious people are functionally insane.

Originally posted by sonhouse
You think because a story gets told millions of times it automatically gets authenticity. I can tell you elvis is alive a million times but that does not make it so. The fact that you and countless millions believe in your particular fairy tale will never make it true. That is why I call it functional insanity. Group hallucination if you will. The really sa ...[text shortened]... a story made up by men, for men and about men to control men and make life miserable for women.

No I don't think just because a story gets told a million times it
automatically get authenticity, get real will you? Your prejudices are
showing again.
Kelly

Originally posted by twhitehead
What is even sadder is how the theists are always trying to bash an atheist god which neither party believes exists.

In another thread I had robbie carrobie dictating to me that I must believe in everything that he thinks atheists must believe in, whilst he simultaneously is not too sure whether atheists themselves even exist.

Atheists are such an a ...[text shortened]... ave nothing in common except a property we don't have (a belief in a god). So what do you bash?

this is where you are wrong. i don't bash. i don't offer models of spiritual life that everyone should adhere to. unlike the original post, i don't call atheists bundles of despair that live meaningless lives.

everyone is free to make his own religion and should. if god is the pinnacle of wisdom, love and knowledge, would he care that i refer to him as Allah or "Grand poobah of everything that is"? Would he care that i eat pork or that i don't believe in the flood and Adam? And so on.

I don't put absolutes where no absolutes can be placed. It is the fanatical atheists that do that. And just because some religious people are also as fanatical as some atheists that doesn't make any of the categories insane or stupid.

Originally posted by shavixmir
Moronity to start off with.

labeling a category of people without any logical arguments is the true idiocy.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
this is where you are wrong. i don't bash. i don't offer models of spiritual life that everyone should adhere to. unlike the original post, i don't call atheists bundles of despair that live meaningless lives.

I certainly did not intend to imply that all Theists are as I described. If that is what came through, then I apologize.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I certainly did not intend to imply that all Theists are as I described. If that is what came through, then I apologize.

don't worry. some theists, as some atheists do intend to impose some or all of their philosophy. i just got the impression you implied that it is a trait comming from being a theist, whereas it is a trait comming from being human. my way is better so adopt my way and your life will improve.

we still have a long way until learning to accept differences and working together.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
don't worry. some theists, as some atheists do intend to impose some or all of their philosophy. i just got the impression you implied that it is a trait comming from being a theist, whereas it is a trait comming from being human. my way is better so adopt my way and your life will improve.

we still have a long way until learning to accept differences and working together.

How about the right wing nutters in the midwest of America trying to force creationism to be taught side by side with evolution, can you get those dudes to cease and desist this anti-science stance? How can I think anything else but they are functionally insane with their single minded push to destroy science? Why don't you get them on the phone and talk some sense into them, if that is possible? Actual rational people have tried and just gotten rebuked, if you think I am wrong, talk to them. They will do anything in their power to force their views on the minds of the young and hopefully convert more people to their faith and yet more young minds are lost, minds that the human race as a whole NEEDS to have whole not autobiased against science.

Originally posted by sonhouse
How about the right wing nutters in the midwest of America trying to force creationism to be taught side by side with evolution, can you get those dudes to cease and desist this anti-science stance? How can I think anything else but they are functionally insane with their single minded push to destroy science? Why don't you get them on the phone and talk so ...[text shortened]... lost, minds that the human race as a whole NEEDS to have whole not autobiased against science.

heey, you seem to be seeing the light. of course you are still a long way away from it.

you realized that there is another category of religious people, the moronic kind. the people who think that creationism is a theory just as valid as evolution and should be thought in school. just as there are atheists who are neo-nazis or child molesters or corporate thieving scum who have nothing to do with the hard working, atheist pediatricians, teachers and scientists.

nobody denies there are psychos out there. no reasonable theist would defend a YEC or a fanatic aside from saying "he is my brothah, he is ... speshul". but there are theists who realize it is offensive to god to piss on the intelligence we believe he gave us just so we follow a book that even if was god's word, got changed by the people who wrote it. there are theists who believe god is glad when we discover something to better mankind. we believe he is the kind of parent that allows his child to discover things for himself and not the kind of parent who would remove all decision privileges from the child and wipe his ass and hold his hand.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
heey, you seem to be seeing the light. of course you are still a long way away from it.

you realized that there is another category of religious people, the moronic kind. the people who think that creationism is a theory just as valid as evolution and should be thought in school. just as there are atheists who are neo-nazis or child molesters or corporat ...[text shortened]... t who would remove all decision privileges from the child and wipe his ass and hold his hand.

How about the idea mankind has brilliant brains, brains able to grow up as a race and not need constant referal to a god? How bout the idea we can figure things out on our own, we don't need a god to tell us it's wrong to rape, wrong to steal from the company till, etc. The thing that ticks me off is when religious people think THEIR religion is the only one and all other are false, leading to religious war, which, btw, is going on right now in Africa where indiginous tribes who have had whatever religion for thousands of years are now being told to convert to Islam or die, and hundreds of thousands of them have already died because they didn't. Or how bout when the Spanish Conquistadores completly destroyed a large part of the already existing culture in South America when they destroyed the Inca's who had their own way of life for thousands of years? That is Islam and Christianity at its best and those inside those religions see nothing wrong with that disgusting behavior. They all say they have god on their side, did you ever hear the Dylan song by that title? With God on Their Side? Pretty much sums it up. You can't see that activity as funtional insanity? I am not talking about the average joe who has been duped into being religious, I am talking about the zealots of every creed who think it is their RIGHT to kill to convert the unfaithful.
The fact that all that happens tells me right away EVERY religion is full of crap, like I say christianity and islam are the two biggest scams of the last 2000 years. Look at the Pope, just saying he wants to make sure peoples experience of religion is not a personal individual thing, like it has to be heiretical, with of course the leaders on top and the poor duped souls have to go through THEM to get salvation. If there were a real god, said god would have zero difficulty saying to every thinking being on the planet 'this is how it is folks, here are the rules'
not a bunch of man made crap that varies from city to city, country to country, continent to continent. If a person chooses to believe in a volcano god like Pele, let them the hell alone, but NO, christians decided when in Hawaii you do as I say, worship how I say, send all the kids to christian schools, total a civilzation that had been there for thousands of years. Or how bout the Abs in Australia? Christians decided THEIR god was so far superior to the Abs, they forced them to white schools, churches and so forth and look at those people now. Totally lost, alcoholics. Do you think a god would put up with that crap?
NO it would not. The fact that it does nothing about these atrocities done in some gods name shows full well there is nothing there but the onion of religion, starting in dead center of the onion where there is nothing and layer after layer of dogma is added till you have this bastardization of thousands of years of writing, where it is now self evident to the writers and the followers, after all this verbage, it HAS to be right. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is all just that: Verbage. Which is not to say there are people who genuinely help others but they do it with the big ring in sight: If I keep doing good, the next life will be in heaven. I help people because they need it, not because I am going to get some goodie in the non-existant afterlife.
Afterlife is an oxymoron. Afterlife is death, pure and simple and the more people realize that maybe the more they will start to love the planet, which is to say be responsible about being the earth's shepard, first by lowering to population to something under a billion not ten billion, second by not referring to a god every time they want to have dinner, and so forth.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Just think of it, their god makes a whole universe, puts in billions of years or is it 8,000, this omnicient god who knows all about every quark in every atom of every cell in every life form in the universe, chooses to spend its time directing the very rocks to grow, the very air to come into being, the very oceans to come forth, the sun to light up the ea ...[text shortened]... ping this god will set things straight in the 'afterlife' a nice oxymoron if ever I heard one.

Are you seriously arguing that the location of a blood vessel in front of the retina proves God does not exist?

Originally posted by Conrau K
Are you seriously arguing that the location of a blood vessel in front of the retina proves God does not exist?

Here is the argument: This god, your god?, made man in his image, quote, unquote. So here we have mankind being put on this pedestal as the pinnacle of creation, god's greatest work. Then we have such creatures as octopus, a smart but not human intelligence living in the ocean, we would say an inferior creature to mankind, but this creature has it's eyes done right in one respect, the blood vessels are in BACK of the retina, therefore the vision is sharper because of it. Back in the caveman days, Cro Magnon, Neandertals, etc., it would have been nice to have had the best eye design available on the planet but we have these inferior products. Maybe neandertals would not have gone extinct if they had had sharper eyes, maybe not, but it is clear creatures we consider inferior have a much better designed eye than us humans. Look at eagles, they have 5 times the density of rods and cones as humans, it would have been nice to have been outfitted with some variation of those plus the blood vessels in the right place ala octopus. That is just one of the many things this god screwed up if we are supposed to be the crown of creation. The fact that a god could have fixed that immediately says a lot about there not being a god, just evolution and blind luck ending up with a flawed design. The same argument can be made for many other designs in the human body, like some animals have valves in their legs in the blood vessels so if your leg gets cut off or some less disasterous situation, humans bleed out, with the valves known to exist on some animals like Giraffe's, I think they have them, any major cut to an artery, the valves close off so the animal does not bleed out. Sounds like a superior design to me, it could have been encorporated easily into humans but as luck would have it, not gods, we have inferior blood vessels too.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Here is the argument: This god, your god?, made man in his image, quote, unquote. So here we have mankind being put on this pedestal as the pinnacle of creation, god's greatest work. Then we have such creatures as octopus, a smart but not human intelligence living in the ocean, we would say an inferior creature to mankind, but this creature has it's eyes do ...[text shortened]... d easily into humans but as luck would have it, not gods, we have inferior blood vessels too.

I have never heard a theist argue that God created man so that they would be physically perfect. Visual abilities do not figure importantly.

Originally posted by Conrau K
I have never heard a theist argue that God created man so that they would be physically perfect. Visual abilities do not figure importantly.

Of course not to a theist, we are all created perfect. Of course there is the case of 3 yo girls getting cancer of the vagina, ALS, AIDs, plague, and so forth, but hey, we are perfect so that stuff is to be expected. This crap of mom telling little Billy, jesus called our little girl to him, he wanted her to be with him (you know, the one who died of vaginal cancer at the age of 3?), just doesn't cut it. We are the product of luck pure and simple not some godly design.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Of course not to a theist, we are all created perfect. Of course there is the case of 3 yo girls getting cancer of the vagina, ALS, AIDs, plague, and so forth, but hey, we are perfect so that stuff is to be expected. This crap of mom telling little Billy, jesus called our little girl to him, he wanted her to be with him (you know, the one who died of vagina ...[text shortened]... of 3?), just doesn't cut it. We are the product of luck pure and simple not some godly design.

You are not making much sense at all. Let me reiterate: I have never encountered a theist who has claimed that man is perfect (quite the opposite, in fact) or who has claimed that man is physically perfect. Do you often encounter theists who believe otherwise? If so, which scriptural texts cohere with this belief?

Originally posted by Conrau K
You are not making much sense at all. Let me reiterate: I have never encountered a theist who has claimed that man is perfect (quite the opposite, in fact) or who has claimed that man is physically perfect. Do you often encounter theists who believe otherwise? If so, which scriptural texts cohere with this belief?

he puts too much stock in "god created man in his image".

did you ever thought it meant spiritual and intellectual image? are you saying that god is a biped with white beard? in whose image were women created? or blacks? if we were to encounter a green lizard civilization on another planet, is god a white and black and green hermafrodite biped with lizard scales and a tail?

in his image simply means god has given man the power to reason, to distinguish right from wrong, to better himself.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Here is the argument: This god, your god?, made man in his image, quote, unquote. So here we have mankind being put on this pedestal as the pinnacle of creation, god's greatest work. Then we have such creatures as octopus, a smart but not human intelligence living in the ocean, we would say an inferior creature to mankind, but this creature has it's eyes do ...[text shortened]... d easily into humans but as luck would have it, not gods, we have inferior blood vessels too.

here is the argument god is kind and smart: because we have weaker eyes, less accurate hearing and smell, weaker muscles caused us to leave the trees and come together in larger communities, to discover fire because we had no fur, to make tools because we are weaker, to constantly discover ways of improving ourselves. crocs and sharks are very nicely built. they had no need to adapt. we had. if it werent for these flaws, we would still be roaming the plains, the perfect hunters.