10 Jun 12
Originally posted by galveston75Hold it now. You brush me off. Don't you know that ?
Well now wait a minute. This is the second or third time you brushed me off and say it really doesn't matter to you? Is that because you have been shown something you can't explain??????
It sure looks like that to me.
Or you brush off the Scriptures that I submit as relevant.
Did you answer my question about Paul's weapons of warefare in Second Corinthian 10:4,5 ?
"For the weapons our warefare are not fleshly but powerful before God for the overthrowing of strongholds.
As we overthrow reasonings and every high thing rising up against the knowledge of God .... etc. etc."
How can the Apostle Paul speak of "the WEAPONS OF OUR WAREFARE" and not have the concept that he is in an army ?
10 Jun 12
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillwow. thanks for the heaping compliments! much appreciated. i'll try not to let it go to my head.that's not a correct interpretation. according to your view, satan is already here and christ will come to earth from somewhere else bringing his army. that's an extra-terrestrial invasion.
You are very eager to:
find fault,
find inconsistancy,
hunt for error,
expose logical fallacy,
notice something justifying dismissal of the Bible,
point out logical problem, etc. etc.
Somtimes, it is good to simply ASK a person for clarification. I know what I have written. And there is no problem with what I explained.
that's the normal part of a discourse. your clarification is noted, though it does not change the narrative of the revelations; in that an extra-terrestrial army led by jesus christ will invade the earth in order to make war with the armies of earth combined under a charismatic leader, and that at least some of christ's army will be traitorous humans from earth, fighting against their own kind.
The usurpation of the earth by Satan is LIKE an extraterrestial invasion.
Forget Hollywood and Sci-Fi for a moment to just see the parallel, if not in ALL respects, in many respects...
it's just a likely story. when one nation decides to invade another, it may choose to use psychological warfare against their own people first to prepare them for the upcoming atrocities they will commit. a part of this psych warfare is to make the targets of their aggression seem evil and deserving of the invasion. if they can subvert some of the target nations population to fight against their own countrymen, even better!
revelations has all the makings of psychological warfare and subversion.
Jesus Christ the Savior, Whom you sometimes mock, loves you just the same. We all come to Him a mess. We all come to Him in great need.
jesus christ hasn't proven himself to be a savior of anything. he couldn't even fulfill the messianic prophecies, nor his own promise of coming in power within a lifetime. i certainly wouldn't come to that failure if i was in need for anything.
Now, my understanding is that Satan travels back and forth. This is seen in Job. He came to the presence of God from the earth to make accusations against God and Job....
yes, and god was all too easily tempted into a bet. all the same, the role of satan was viewed differently back in the old testament. he only became the devil after helenistic influences entered judea.
10 Jun 12
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywill
Militant atheist on street debates Jeff Durbin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBP1f92fezs&feature=relmfu
Adding comments has been disabled for this video.
jeff durbin's arguments have no basis. he just got lucky with an atheist who couldn't articulate the proper counter arguments.
10 Jun 12
1 edit
Originally posted by VoidSpiritYou think this nonsense is better ?Adding comments has been disabled for this video.
jeff durbin's arguments have no basis. he just got lucky with an atheist who couldn't articulate the proper counter arguments.
that's the normal part of a discourse. your clarification is noted, though it does not change the narrative of the revelations; in that an extra-terrestrial army led by jesus christ will invade the earth in order to make war with the armies of earth combined under a charismatic leader, and that at least some of christ's army will be traitorous humans from earth, fighting against their own kind.
1.) Those with Jesus were born on earth. The earth was created for them. So to speak of them as extraterrestrial is wrong.
We are from the earth and we choose to belong to the Creator who became our Redeemer and our indwelling Spirit of life.
2.) It is far more than "charisma" that qualifiess Christ to be Lord.
He is right, righteous, sinless, and absolute for the will of His Father.
That is why He is exalted to be Lord of all, not some vain and empty charisma.
3.) Traitous fighting aganst their own kind ? You're thoughts are really twisted.
Man was created for God. It is those who join the Satanic opposition party and refuse to be redeemed, who are the irreconciled revolters against humanity as God intended.
You still have no one in history that impresses me as much as Jesus. And He impresses because He is the man absolute for the will of God.
I think the atheist in the video was wise to remain silent at times.
These arguments of yours are really warped.
10 Jun 12
2 edits
Originally posted by VoidSpirit
wow. thanks for the heaping compliments! much appreciated. i'll try not to let it go to my head.
Somtimes, it is good to simply ASK a person for clarification. I know what I have written. And there is no problem with what I explained.
that's the normal part of a discourse. your clarification is noted, though it does not n the old testament. he only became the devil after helenistic influences entered judea.
jesus christ hasn't proven himself to be a savior of anything. he couldn't even fulfill the messianic prophecies, nor his own promise of coming in power within a lifetime. i certainly wouldn't come to that failure if i was in need for anything.
He's come a lot further than you have. Besides your own veiled self hatred, I haven't seen you bring much light and hope to the world as Christ has.
10 Jun 12
Originally posted by jaywill2 Corinthians 10:4-5
Hold it now. You brush me off. Don't you know that ?
Or you brush off the Scriptures that I submit as relevant.
Did you answer my question about Paul's weapons of warefare in [b]Second Corinthian 10:4,5 ?
"For the weapons our warefare are not fleshly but powerful before God for the overthrowing of strongholds.
As we overthrow reason ...[text shortened]... k of [b]"the WEAPONS OF OUR WAREFARE" and not have the concept that he is in an army ?[/b]
New Living Translation (NLT)
4 [a]We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments. 5 We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.
Well I didn't respond because this scripture is not even close to speaking about the subject at hand.
This scripture is simply speaking of using God's backing or direction or power he provides and gives us weapons so to speak in our speaking to others about God and the knowledge of him.
Many we speak to are "stubborn" in listening to ones who represent God and the correct knowledge one could gain if they didn't put up obsticles that keeps them from seeing the truths, just as we seem to have here with you misunderstanding this scripture you yourself quoted but can't understand.
10 Jun 12
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillthis stuff is unrelated. it's an interpretation of revelations in modern context.
You think this nonsense is better ?
that's the normal part of a discourse. your clarification is noted, though it does not change the narrative of the revelations; in that an extra-terrestrial army led by jesus christ will invade the earth in order to make war with the armies of earth combined under a charismatic leader, and that at least some of christ's army will be traitorous humans from earth, fighting against their own kind.
1.) Those with Jesus were born on earth. The earth was created for them. So to speak of them as extraterrestrial is wrong.
see, here is a problem with comprehension that i have to deal with. by extra terrestrial i was referring to jesus and his angelic host.
We are from the earth and we choose to belong to the Creator who became our Redeemer and our indwelling Spirit of life.
and by siding with the extra terrestrials, you are by definition, traitors to earth.
2.) It is far more than "charisma" that qualifiess Christ to be Lord.
He is right, righteous, sinless, and absolute for the will of His Father.
That is why He is exalted to be Lord of all, not some vain and empty charisma.
by the "charismatic" leader, i was referring to the leader of the armies of earth who will stand up to the extra terrestrial invaders and defend the earth.
3.) Traitous fighting aganst their own kind ? You're thoughts are really twisted
yet, that is exactly what they will be doing. siding with the extra-terrestrials and fighting against their own kind on earth. some of those they will be murdering for the extra terrestrials will be their own kin.
Man was created for God. It is those who join the Satanic opposition party and refuse to be redeemed, who are the irreconciled revolters against humanity as God intended.
twisted justification for being a traitor.
You still have no one in history that impresses me as much as Jesus. And He impresses because He is the man absolute for the will of God.
a matter of opinion. there are plenty who have impressed me more than the legendary character of jesus. some are also legendary, some were real.
I think the atheist in the video was wise to remain silent at times.
These arguments of yours are really warped.
yet you haven't been able to refute a single one.
10 Jun 12
Originally posted by jaywillhe hasn't done anything. promising light and hope is an empty promise. jesus failed to deliver his promise.jesus christ hasn't proven himself to be a savior of anything. he couldn't even fulfill the messianic prophecies, nor his own promise of coming in power within a lifetime. i certainly wouldn't come to that failure if i was in need for anything.
He's come a lot further than you have. Besides your own veiled self hatred, I haven't seen you bring much light and hope to the world as Christ has.
10 Jun 12
1 edit
Originally posted by VoidSpiritHe foretold the destruction of Jerusalem in 70CE by the hand of the Romans, any
he hasn't done anything. promising light and hope is an empty promise. jesus failed to deliver his promise.
reason why anyone shouldn't give credence to his other claims, no, i didn't think so,
neeeeext.
10 Jun 12
5 edits
Originally posted by galveston75
2 Corinthians 10:4-5
New Living Translation (NLT)
4 [a]We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments. 5 We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.
Well I didn't respond be ve here with you misunderstanding this scripture you yourself quoted but can't understand.
2 Corinthians 10:4-5
New Living Translation (NLT)
4 [a]We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments. 5 We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.
Well I didn't respond because this scripture is not even close to speaking about the subject at hand.
That is where you are quite mistaken. It is because saints of God HAVE involved themselves in spiritual warfare while on earth, which TRAINS them, and PREPARES them to accompany Christ as His armies.
You simply do not understand how the spiritual walk of His people on earth today is training and preparation for the matters of His second coming.
Proverbs 16:32 - He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty; And he who rules his spirit, than he who captures a city."
The battle ground of the believer while on earth is with the old fallen nature. This warfare is preparation for ruling a city with Christ in the future.
Proverbs 25:28 - Like a city that is broken down, without walls, Is the man whose spirit is without restraint.
The battle for the saint of God today is with the transformation of his SOUL through the Holy Spirit. This is preparation for accompanying Christ to take the earth in His millennial reign.
You should think of this as David's slaying of a bear and a lion was prepration for his slaying of Galiath.
This scripture is simply speaking of using God's backing or direction or power he provides and gives us weapons so to speak in our speaking to others about God and the knowledge of him.
If you told the Apostle Paul that this was not warfare and that he is in no army, I don't think he'd accept your "wisdom" about spiritual matters.
Many we speak to are "stubborn" in listening to ones who represent God and the correct knowledge one could gain if they didn't put up obsticles that keeps them from seeing the truths, just as we seem to have here with you misunderstanding this scripture you yourself quoted but can't understand.
Okay, then we are back to playing hardball. Fine.
Remember what I said? If I post here then I will have to expend labor fighting off your Jehovah's Witness teachings. And so here we are.
Watchtower teachers are not doing what the Apostle Paul was doing in ministering Christ. Teachers from the Kingdom Hall are preaching "another Jesus" . And I have no doubt that Paul would consider you Watchtower teachers NOT as co-workers at all. Rather you are false apostles as he spoke -
"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself transfigures himself into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if also his ministers transfigure themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works." (2 Cor. 11:13-15)
The reason Paul called the workers competing against him as false apostles is because the came to the Corinthians with "another Jesus".
"For if indeed he who comes preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or youy receive a different spirit, which you have not received, or a different gospel, which you have not accepted, ..." ( 2 Cor. 11:4)
Down at the Kingdom Hall they train their workers to go door to door with "another Jesus" who is Michael the angel. They preach "another gospel" no matter how many times they speak of "Jehovah". And they twist the New Testament and transform themselves into "ministers of righteousness" as Satan transformed himself into "an angel of light".
You will never, never be able to fool me with your "another Jesus". And God did not send these "sent ones" to teach the world that Watchtower's "another Jesus" is an archangel rather than God incarnate - "The Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1)
It is therefore useless for you to try to persuade me that the army that Paul fights with is in any way doing what Watchtower trains you people to do.
Now, I don't sense the need to argue further with you.
"The armies which are in heaven followed Him on white horses, dressed in linen, white and clean. And out of His mouth proceeds a sharp sword, that with it He might smite the nations; and He will shepherd them with an iron rod; and He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty." (Rev. 19:14,16)
The overcoming saints accompany Him as the armies. Now I have only one more point to make about this:
It may be true that Christ ALONE does the final blow of destruction. The Bible says He treads the winepress alone . Revelation 19 is obviously a reference to Isaiah 63:3 -
"Who is this who comes from Edom with red-stained garments, from Bozrah ? This One who is majestic in His apparel, Marching in the greatness of His strength?
It is I who speak in righteousness, Mighty to save. Why are you red in apparel, And your garments like those of him who treads in the winepress?
I have trodden the wine trough alone, And from the peoples there was no man with Me. And I trod them in My anger and trapled them in My wrath; And their lifeblood is sprinkled on My garments,
I have stained My apparel. For the day of recompense was in My heart, And the year of My redemption had come. And I looked and there was no one to help; And I was appalled that there was no one to uphold.
Therefore My own arm accomplished salvation for Me."
There is an aspect in which ONLY Jesus Christ has attained the standing to KILL those enemies of God. And at Armegeddon He slays His enemies ALONE with the sword of the word from His mouth.
HOWEVER, He is accompanied by His overcoming bride who has just been to the wedding feast of the Lamb. That is the overcomers. So while Chist may do the final slaying ALONE, this VICTORY LAP is not run by Him alone. "The armies" of saints from the wedding feast of the Lamb "...which are in heaven followed Him. "
They married Him.
They follow Him.
They are also "the armies" .
That is all. I'll assume anything else I write on this thread is not for you.
10 Jun 12
Originally posted by jaywillWell I guess not....
[quote] 2 Corinthians 10:4-5
New Living Translation (NLT)
4 [a]We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments. 5 We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.
Well I didn't resp ...[text shortened]... else I write on this thread is not for you.
10 Jun 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobiematthew, where the prophecy was declared was written around the year 70-100 according to scholarly consensus. the roman invasion and destruction of the temple happened on year 70.
He foretold the destruction of Jerusalem in 70CE by the hand of the Romans, any
reason why anyone shouldn't give credence to his other claims, no, i didn't think so,
neeeeext.
that "prophecy" was written on the same year of the destruction of the temple or later. it is not a prophecy at all.
10 Jun 12
Originally posted by galveston75it didn't happen according to jesus christ's timetable. and things i don't see may be happening, but prophecies aren't fulfilled in secret.
Patience. Just because things have not happened yet according to your timetable does not mean that things you cannot see have not been happening.