Rev 12: 1-17

Originally posted by menace71
Ok thanks. But look at these scriptures and see if the literal Israel is still in God's favour. Remember, they never accepted Jesus as the messiah and were behind his death..


7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

Wh ...[text shortened]... d their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be!

Manny

Well we are kind of getting off the subject of this thread but look this over and see what you think and look up the scriptures posted here:

Why could “New Jerusalem” not be a city in the Middle East?

New Jerusalem is heavenly, not earthly, for it comes down “out of heaven from God.” (Re 21:10) So this city is not one erected by men and consisting of literal streets and buildings constructed in the Middle East on the site of the ancient city of Jerusalem, which was destroyed in 70 C.E. The members of the bride class when on earth are told that their “citizenship exists in the heavens” and that their hope is to receive “an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance.” “It is reserved in the heavens for you,” says the apostle Peter.—Php 3:20; 1Pe 1:4.


Also consider these facts of this city:

That the New Jerusalem is indeed a heavenly city is further supported by the vision of her that John beheld. Only a symbolic city could have the dimensions and splendor of New Jerusalem. Its base was foursquare, about 555 km (345 mi) on each side, or about 2,220 km (1,379 mi) completely around, that is, 12,000 furlongs. Being a cube, the city was also as high as it was long and wide. No man-made city could ever reach that far into “outer space.” Round about was a wall 144 cubits (64 m; 210 ft) high. The wall, itself constructed of jasper, in turn rested on 12 foundation stones, precious stones of great beauty—jasper, sapphire, chalcedony, emerald, sardonyx, sardius, chrysolite, beryl, topaz, chrysoprase, hyacinth, and amethyst. On these 12 foundation stones were engraved the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb. The city proper within these beautiful walls was no less glorious, for it was described as “pure gold like clear glass,” having a broad way of “pure gold, as transparent glass.”—Re 21:12-21.

So with these descriptions of the "new Jerusalem" it could not be physically on earth.

Originally posted by galveston75
Well we are kind of getting off the subject of this thread but look this over and see what you think and look up the scriptures posted here:

Why could “New Jerusalem” not be a city in the Middle East?

New Jerusalem is heavenly, not earthly, for it comes down “out of heaven from God.” (Re 21:10) So this city is not one erected by men an ...[text shortened]... 21.

So with these descriptions of the "new Jerusalem" it could not be physically on earth.

what are you saying it's spot on with the subject

Of course the New Jerusalem is not man made but it comes down out of Heaven and how do you know what it will be like? A new heaven and earth will be made by God and just because you can't visualize it does not mean it will not be true.

Also what is the city being mentioned at the end of the book of Ezekiel ?

Manny

Originally posted by JS357
I was taught one reason that the book called Revelation is important to the Bible is that in it, we are told that the Bible, with this book, is complete and will not be added to, and if anyone tries to pass something off as if we should add it to the Bible, they are wrong. Please feel free to tell me if this teaching was incorrect.

Edit: But this is off topic so it's OK if you don't care to comment.

You are completely correct and you was taught good. Lol. Yes the Bible was a gift from God to tell us of himself and also to learn about our past, what is happening now to us on this planet and more importantly what the future holds.
But yes as of now the Bible is complete and we cannot add to it. That's infringing on God's copyright laws so to speak.
But this Bible also says that in the future new scrolls will be opened. So we have to see what they are and what they will tell and teach us about God and many other things we all want to know....

So with these descriptions of the "new Jerusalem" it could not be physically on earth.


Why not? If God can speak the universe into being this would be nothing for God to do.


Manny

Originally posted by menace71
what are you saying it's spot on with the subject

Of course the New Jerusalem is not man made but it comes down out of Heaven and how do you know what it will be like? A new heaven and earth will be made by God and just because you can't visualize it does not mean it will not be true.

Also what is the city being mentioned at the end of the book of Ezekiel ?

Manny

Well yes it is in those verses but there is a lot to talk about there. But this is fine so we'll continue with this.

But the scripture I just showed you about the description of the size of it would not be able to be on this earth.
I don't need to visualize it at all. The scriptures give a clear description of it.

Let me ask you, why couldn't this "new Jerusalem" be in heaven? Is it because you believe that Jesus is still coming back to earth and this would also have to be on earth in order for that to make sense to you?

You may not have looked up this scripture but where does it say these chosen ones live?

Philippians 3:20
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

20 but our citizenship is in "heaven", from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.

This does not say on earth and in Jerusalem but in "heaven."

Originally posted by menace71
So with these descriptions of the "new Jerusalem" it could not be physically on earth.


Why not? If God can speak the universe into being this would be nothing for God to do.


Manny

So it will go 345 miles up into space?

Originally posted by galveston75
Well yes it is in those verses but there is a lot to talk about there. But this is fine so we'll continue with this.

But the scripture I just showed you about the description of the size of it would not be able to be on this earth.
I don't need to visualize it at all. The scriptures give a clear description of it.

Let me ask you, why couldn't t ...[text shortened]... the Lord Jesus Christ.

This does not say on earth and in Jerusalem but in "heaven."

It is but it says it comes down from heaven meaning it is moving or going somewhere
right?

I realize this city is huge but we have no clue of what the new heavens and earth will be.

Manny

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven


Rev 21



Manny

Originally posted by galveston75
So it will go 345 miles up into space?

In the new heavens and earth probably not an issue



Manny

Originally posted by menace71
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven


Rev 21



Manny

I asked this before on another thread but no more seas? How is that going to work?

Also how does Rev 21:22-27 fit into this literally coming down to earth and be a real city in a literal way?

A holy and sacred city indeed, yet there was no visible temple of worship, for “Jehovah God the Almighty is its temple, also the Lamb is.” And there was “no need of the sun nor of the moon to shine upon it, for the glory of God lighted it up, and its lamp was the Lamb.” Its rulership over the nations will be beneficial to them, for “the nations will walk by means of its light.”—Re 21:22-27.

Here it seems to contradict that it is even a literal city at all. It says Jehovah and Jesus are actually the temple. What does that mean? It means that their influances and protection and direction will be on the entire earth and in affect the "new Jerusalem" or Kingdom will finally be over the earth as God planned..

So let me understand what you ar saying. First the earth and heavens as we know it will be literally destroyed and that will include the sea which looks like it will not ever come back?
So if the heavens are literally destroyed, what happens to God and his son Jesus and all the angels when this does happen? Where do they go during this event?
And if Jesus had just cleansed the heavens of Satan and all the demons, why does it have to be destroyed? It should be ok to keep now.
But after the new ones are created then this 345 mile high city will come down from heaven and sit on the surface of the earth. How heavy will it be?
And there will be no sunlight but the light will come from the Lamb Jesus as Revelation says. Will this light travel all around the earth to keep life going?

I'm not making light of this at all Manny. I'm just trying to say is this literal? Most of Revelation is not and it uses many of these descriptions to help us visualize what things might look like in heaven if they were were made in a physical way for our eyes to see. But they not of course. So with these descriptions of this "new Jerusalem" being as they are in Rvelation, one should think about the logical aspects and if they would really be applied to earth.

Originally posted by galveston75
So let me understand what you ar saying. First the earth and heavens as we know it will be literally destroyed and that will include the sea which looks like it will not ever come back?
So if the heavens are literally destroyed, what happens to God and his son Jesus and all the angels when this does happen? Where do they go during this event?
And if ...[text shortened]... on, one should think about the logical aspects and if they would really be applied to earth.

G-man I don't truly know but this is what the bible says and your right God will dwell in this new Jerusalem and his light will shine through out his whole creation. I think the main reason God is going to create a new heavens is because this whole present creation is cursed. Entropy is one of the curses. The curse of death. The new heavens will no longer have the curse. This curse is spoke of by the apostle Paul. God and Heaven are in some other dimension or place so if God destroyed this universe it would not stop or destroy the realm He dwells in or the angels or anything. I do think there will be a merging of heaven and earth in this new heavens however.

Manny

Will this light travel all around the earth to keep life going?


G-man He is God he speaks and life is so yes why not? I think your to caught up in and with this current world. I firmly believe we can barely comprehend what this new heaven and earth will be like. Who cares because you know why? God will be there and we will no longer die. The sun is brilliant but imagine the one who created the sun and how brilliant His light will be?

Originally posted by menace71
G-man I don't truly know but this is what the bible says and your right God will dwell in this new Jerusalem and his light will shine through out his whole creation. I think the main reason God is going to create a new heavens is because this whole present creation is cursed. Entropy is one of the curses. The curse of death. The new heavens will no longer ...[text shortened]... . I do think there will be a merging of heaven and earth in this new heavens however.

Manny

Well as I said the heavens have been cleansed of the Devil and his evil influance. I see no scriptures that say that was not enough and it still neeeds to be destroyed in a literal sense because of some curse that Satan put upon it.
But this is your view and I do appreciate you posting it here. This is why I started this discussion. Thanks.

Originally posted by menace71
Will this light travel all around the earth to keep life going?


G-man He is God he speaks and life is so yes why not? I think your to caught up in and with this current world. I firmly believe we can barely comprehend what this new heaven and earth will be like. Who cares because you know why? God will be there and we will no longer die. The sun is brilliant but imagine the one who created the sun and how brilliant His light will be?

But if there is no sun in our solar system how will that work for the rest of the planets that circle it? Just asking?