Originally posted by Suzianne"Everlasting life" is one of the most often visited topics on this forum.
You're just trying to vilify these people for believing in an "afterlife" when you yourself do not. Isn't that really what this is all about? No one is saying they are going to "live forever".
Originally posted by SuzianneI think humans dreaming of their own immortality is an entirely normal and natural part of the human condition. This aspect of the human spirit has given rise to countless religions.
... maybe on RHP they could all be forced to have a little yellow cross next to their names so you can tell them apart from "normal" people.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyThat the Book of Works is a record of good deeds is news to me.
Joe, the basis for each indictment will be good deeds as recorded in the Book of Works which will opened after the Book of Life which will contain the names of those men and women and children who have believed in Jesus Christ [with the result that they have a personal relationship with God and eternal life with Him for eternity]. No matter how many goo ...[text shortened]... [/i] to receive God's righteousness is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:30)
They that stand before the throne, great and small, are all that died in their sin. Correct?
Those that trusted Christ are not the objects of the judgement at the Great White Throne at the end of the millennium. I've always understood that the Book of Works is a record of all the things done by the unsaved that constitutes unrighteousness for which they recieve a just punishment.
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Originally posted by FMFSo have you, but you don't believe it.
Have you not heard religionists talking about their "afterlife", about "going to heaven", about "life after death", about the "indestructible soul", about "life in the hereafter", about "a personal relationship with God and eternal life with Him for eternity", about having an "immortal immaterial soul", and about "the immaterial, immortal essence of man"? I think you have.
Does that make it untrue?
Originally posted by josephwIt means that your assertions about your own immortality and the immortality of other Christians, who share your beliefs about the "afterlife", have no effect on the "reality" of my life, and the notion of immortality/"afterlife" has no effect on how I live my life.
So have you, but you don't believe it.
Does that make it untrue?
Originally posted by josephwThe Book of Life
That the Book of Works is a record of good deeds is news to me.
They that stand before the throne, great and small, are all that died in their sin. Correct?
Those that trusted Christ are not the objects of the judgement at the Great White Throne at the end of the millennium. I've always understood that the Book of Works is a record of all the things done by the unsaved that constitutes unrighteousness for which they recieve a just punishment.
"The book of life mentioned in Philippians 4:3 and Revelation 3:5; 13:8; 17:8,
20; 20:12, 15; 21:27; 22:19 is one thing in eternity past and one thing in time and
something different in eternity future. In eternity past, the names of every person
that will live in time are in the book of life. Those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ
as Savior in time will have their name removed from the book of life at the
moment of physical death. Only the names of believers in the Lord Jesus Christ
will have their names remain in the book of life in eternity future.
The names of those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ in time will not only have their
names removed from the book of life but will have them transferred to the book of works
mentioned at the Great White Throne Judgment in Revelation 20:12.
The unbelievers whose names have been transferred from the book of life to the
book of works will be judged by Christ according to their works or their own
merits which are nothing more than human righteousness and thus inferior to the
righteousness of Christ and His righteous act at the Cross. Since the unbeliever has
rejected the work of Christ on the cross, he must rely solely upon his own merit for
salvation. All the good works of the unbeliever add up to man’s relative
righteousness (Is. 64:6), which are infinitely inferior the righteousness of Christ.
The fact that the unbeliever depends upon his own merits to obtain salvation and
rejects the work of Christ, is the basis for his condemnation at the Great White
Throne Judgment (Rev. 20:11-15). Since all personal sins in human history
were imputed to the impeccable humanity of Christ at the cross and judged,
sin is not the issue in their condemnation (Rev. 20:13).
So the book of life is the registry of all believers from every dispensation of history
(Phlp. 4:3; Rev. 3:5; 13:8; 17:8, 20; 20:12, 15; 21:27; 22:19). The book of life means
that you cannot lose your salvation." Pastor/Teacher Bill Wenstrom
http://www.wenstrom.org/downloads/written/doctrines/soteriology/book_of_life.pdf
Originally posted by FMFI wouldn't expect that my assertions about immortality should have any effect on how you live your life.
It means that your assertions about your own immortality and the immortality of other Christians, who share your beliefs about the "afterlife", have no effect on the "reality" of my life, and the notion of immortality/"afterlife" has no effect on how I live my life.
The "assertions", as you call them, are based on what God has said. I would think that God's Word would have an effect on your life, but it won't as long as you deny that God has spoken and preserved His Word for all eternity.
So really, your assertion that eternal life is available to the believer is merely any man's assertion is based on a false assumption.
Originally posted by josephwI am not asserting that "eternal life is available to the believer". You seem to have no idea what I have been saying. I think your dream of "eternal life" is part of your coping mechanism in the face of the human condition's brute facts regarding our mortality.
So really, your assertion that eternal life is available to the believer is merely any man's assertion is based on a false assumption.
Originally posted by FMFNo, it is you that has no idea what I am saying.
I am not asserting that "eternal life is available to the believer". You seem to have no idea what I have been saying. I think your dream of "eternal life" is part of your coping mechanism in the face of the human condition's brute facts regarding our mortality.
"I think your dream of "eternal life"..."
"It means that your assertions about your own immortality..."
you are asserting that I am asserting that eternal life and immortality are my assertions. They are not. Eternal life and immortality come from God and are God's assertions.
Try to get what I'm saying here. And as much as you would like to contradict what I am saying it just won't work. I didn't invent eternal life, therefore eternal life isn't my assertion. It's God's assertion whether you like it or not.
Originally posted by josephwI think it's far better if people take personal responsibility for the claims they make in a public forum. It is you who has made claims about your "eternal life". Your God figure doesn't post here. I am unaware of any "assertion" your God figure has made here about "josephw". 😉
Try to get what I'm saying here. And as much as you would like to contradict what I am saying it just won't work. I didn't invent eternal life, therefore eternal life isn't my assertion. It's God's assertion whether you like it or not.
Originally posted by FMFYou quibble too much over semantics.
I think it's far better if people take personal responsibility for the claims they make in a public forum. It is you who has made claims about your "eternal life". Your God figure doesn't post here. I am unaware of any "assertion" your God figure has made here about "josephw". 😉
God is the author of eternal life. Only God can give eternal life.
Joe can only say that God only can give "eternal life". Not because Joe made it up, but because only God can make up "eternal life".
Joe is only reflecting what God can do.
Originally posted by josephwI think you may be getting a bit carried away. You read some stuff in a book and now you're going around telling people that you have "eternal life". It's your reaction to the book, not someone else's. You can only speak on your own behalf. You can't speak on behalf of a supernatural being or God figure.
You quibble too much over semantics.
God is the author of eternal life. Only God can give eternal life.
Joe can only [b]say that God only can give "eternal life". Not because Joe made it up, but because only God can make up "eternal life".
Joe is only reflecting what God can do.[/b]
Originally posted by FMF"You can't speak on behalf of a supernatural being or God figure."
I think you may be getting a bit carried away. You read some stuff in a book and now you're going around telling people that you have "eternal life". It's your reaction to the book, not someone else's. You can only speak on your own behalf. You can't speak on behalf of a supernatural being or God figure.
So you say! Let's be real. God has not audibly spoken to me or anyone else, at least not since a couple of thousand years ago.
Aside from direct intervention God uses human agency to do those things which He has commanded His followers to do, and say.
I'm not running half a race in this life. I'm going all the way to the finish line.
2 Corinthians 5:18-20
And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Think of it as my job to act and speak as an ambassador in Christ's stead. Daunting to say the least. I try to be very careful not to misrepresent the truth of God's Word. I've made many mistakes, but basics are basics.
God gives eternal life to any for the asking. If you ask me how I know I have eternal life, the only real answer is because God said so, and I believe God.
Originally posted by josephwFACT: there have been all manner of supposed "revelations" of God throughout human history and throughout the world. FACT: all manner of people internalize and regurgitate the details of these supposed "revelations". FACT: virtually all of these sets of beliefs involve an "eternal life". FACT: you cannot cite a single instance of a person having "eternal life" in the whole of human history ~ you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that it has ever happened, regardless of how certain you are that it has. FACT: you keep telling me that you will have "eternal life".
God gives eternal life to any for the asking. If you ask me how I know I have eternal life, the only real answer is because God said so, and I believe God.