Originally posted by robbie carrobieI have not been "irked" at all, robbie. Anyone reading these exchanges will note that both you and Suzianne have appeared to be "irked" and have sought to 'make it personal' to some degree, while I have been rather matter of fact throughout. I hear what you say about the Muslim deity and the Christian deity, but it continues to be my considered view that both religions are simply different religionist 'packaging' of the same 'one and only' God, and that it is for the most part only extremely partisan Muslims and extremely partisan Christians who disagree.
...one can see that it describes a totally different entity altogether and its this that irked FMF...
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat differ and bear comparison are your perceptions - Christian and Muslim - of the monotheist "God", as does the literature and tradition that has been built upon those perceptions. This perception gap simply indicates that there is diversity among the followers of the one-and-only "God", it does not mean that there isn't a one-and-only "God", or that there are two or three of them or whatever. The entity creates different perceptions. Your perceptions do not create the entity. That's my view anyway, after 28 years of being a Christian, overlapping with 20 years [on and off] of living and working with Muslims.
yes that is the claim, but when one reads either the Hadith or the Koran and makes a comparison with the Bible, one can see that it describes a totally different entity altogether
Originally posted by FMFI have not been irked FMF, on the contrary, i feel fine. As for similarities, there are
I have not been "irked" at all, robbie. Anyone reading these exchanges will note that both you and Suzianne have appeared to be "irked" and have sought to 'make it personal' to some degree, while I have been rather matter of fact throughout. I hear what you say about the Muslim deity and the Christian deity, but it continues to be my considered vie ...[text shortened]... t part only extremely partisan Muslims and extremely partisan Christians who disagree.
some if you look for them but it appears to me that Islam is a hybrid religion, borne
from Judaism with its strict ordinances which by its very nature tends to negate the
natural exercise of conscience and seeking some affinity with Christianity through
some reference to Christ and Mary, Jesus mother. Anyone who reads the Koran must
be struck by its coldness, (perhaps like you he wishes to remain rather matter of fact)
and its peculiar Arabic vision.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI am not claiming that your perceptions of the monotheist "God" are the same, robbie. As a matter of interest, would you classify Muslims who believe that the one-only "God" that they worship is the same as the one that Christians worship, despite the differences in literature and tradition, as not really Muslims?
I have not been irked FMF, on the contrary, i feel fine. As for similarities, there are some if you look for them but it appears to me that Islam is a hybrid religion, borne from Judaism with its strict ordinances which by its very nature tends to negate the natural exercise of conscience and seeking some affinity with Christianity through some refe ...[text shortened]... , (perhaps like you he wishes to remain rather matter of fact)
and its peculiar Arabic vision.
Originally posted by FMFi would class them as human beings FMF.
I am not claiming that your perceptions of the monotheist "God" are the same, robbie. As a matter of interest, would you classify Muslims who believe that the one-only "God" that they worship is the same as the one that Christians worship, despite the differences in literature and tradition, as not really Muslims?
Why are there three Abrahamic religions, meaning same origin, if they don't believe in the same god?
I know people that actually believe that the name of their god is "God". And they are very suprise to hear that "Allah" just means "god" in arabic, and nothing else.
But He is worshipped differently, but does that matter? Even among christians god is worshipped differently, does that mean that there are many subreligions within the christian one?
I would go so far to say that there is only one Abrahamic religion. Same god, same religion, just diffenent worshipping rites.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell of course. Who doesn't?
i would class them as human beings FMF.
But as for my question? You seem to be denying that their "God" is real. Would you think of a Muslim who thinks his or her "God" is real, and who thinks your "God" is real too, and, indeed, thinks it is the same "God", despite the different traditions, would you think of them as real Muslims?
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Originally posted by FabianFnasIts not a case of believing or not believing in the same God, it is understood that each
Why are there three Abrahamic religions, meaning same origin, if they don't believe in the same god?
I know people that actually believe that the name of their god is "God". And they are very suprise to hear that "Allah" just means "god" in arabic, and nothing else.
But He is worshipped differently, but does that matter? Even among christians god is ...[text shortened]... s only one Abrahamic religion. Same god, same religion, just diffenent worshipping rites.
'claimant', maintains that their faith is representative of the one and only true God, yet
how can one reconcile the Christian ideal of forgiveness for error with the cutting off of
ones limbs for theft, just by way of example, thus whatever the 'claimants', claims
are, they simply cannot be representations of the same deity unless of course we are
willing to assert that forgiveness and cutting off limbs for theft are different
expressions of the deitys will.
Originally posted by FMFHow can I state that they are not real FMF, everyone's deity is real to them.
Well of course. Who doesn't?
But as for my question? You seem to be denying that their "God" is real. Would you think of a Muslim who thinks his or her "God" is real, and who thinks your "God" is real too, and, indeed, thinks it is the same "God", despite the different traditions, would you think of them as real Muslims?
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Originally posted by FMFThere are many things that are termed 'God', FMF, even within a Biblical context, 'the
How many real "Gods" do you think there are then?
God of this system of things', men who make 'Gods', of their stomachs (through
overindulgence), but i suspect you mean in some kind of ultimate sense, therefore as
far as I am concerned there is only one real God, in fact, all we can say with any
certainty is what appears to us to be true or real, after an evaluation with our minds,
other people have their own realities and their own evaluations.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThis is what I have been saying all along. And this perception that there is only one real "God" is probably aptly reflected inthe fact that one of the words that Indonesians use for "God", whether they be Muslim or Christian, is "Allah".
...as far as I am concerned there is only one real God....