Originally posted by FMFSure, if your perception is that God is termed Allah, then, what is there to say? Its
This is what I have been saying all along. And this perception that there is only one real "God" is probably aptly reflected inthe fact that one of the words that Indonesians use for "God", whether they be Muslim or Christian, is "Allah".
your reality.
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Originally posted by FMFno not really, for its rather interesting, please consider this, in the name of Allah,
Well, in terms of the languages spoken by its followers around the world, it's a reality of Christianity.
the most merciful and beneficent, oft repeated words, i am sure you have heard many
times. Now what is the name of Allah, meaning God? You can search the Koran from
beginning to end and you will not find the name of Allah (God) mentioned anywhere.
This of course is not true of the Christian God, as you have explained, the term Allah
is generic to a culture which accepts it, however, the Christian God has a specific
name, you mentioned it yourself, Yaweh, which is truly a name and one embraced by
Christian cultures throughout the world, the same cannot be said of Allah, for reasons
already mentioned.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell Indonesian Christians are a part of Christianity, robbie, unless you think they're not in some way?
no not really, for its rather interesting, please consider this, in the name of Allah,
the most merciful and beneficent, oft repeated words, i am sure you have heard many
times. Now what is the name of Allah, meaning God? You can search the Koran from
beginning to end and you will not find the name of Allah (God) mentioned anywhere.
This o ...[text shortened]... ultures throughout the world, the same cannot be said of Allah, for reasons
already mentioned.
Originally posted by FMFI am not saying that they are not FMF, i am simply stating that the use of Allah is
Well Indonesian Christians are a part of Christianity, robbie, unless you think they're not in some way?
generic to a particular culture or society that has been influenced by Islam, as has
Indonesia, Pakistani Christians are also Christian and just by way of contrast would
never use the term Allah, neither would American Christians either, to cite a specific
culture as Indonesia and state that the use of Allah is generic to all Christians
throughout the earth, is unacceptable.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell I said no such thing robbie. You think I am saying that a particular Indonesian word is generic to "all Christians throughout the earth"? I never said anything remotely like that. I said that in terms of all the languages spoken by its many followers all around the world, the use of the word "Allah" by Indonesians is a reality of Christianity, as is the use of the words "Gusti" or "Gusti Allah" by Javanese Christians and so on.
...to cite a specific culture as Indonesia and state that the use of Allah is generic to all Christians throughout the earth, is unacceptable.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou put in rather many words in one and the same sentence. Neded some dechifering there...
Its not a case of believing or not believing in the same God, it is understood that each
'claimant', maintains that their faith is representative of the one and only true God, yet
how can one reconcile the Christian ideal of forgiveness for error with the cutting off of
ones limbs for theft, just by way of example, thus whatever the 'claimants forgiveness and cutting off limbs for theft are different
expressions of the deitys will.
Cutting limbs in god's name, or molesting boys in church in god's name are both acts of evil men, has nothing to do with if the god is same or another. If an evil thing is done by a christian, another by a muslim, the acts are evil anyway. If god doesn't approve of that, then may he punish them instantly. He doesn't. Conclusion?
Many evil things are done in the name of god. Many evil things are done by religious people.
My point is that in all three Abrahamic religions worship the same god. Therefore the three is basically the same religion. You worship Allah, as well as any jew, or muslim. Samo samo.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI don't think FMF is saying that all Christians use the term Allah. He's saying that some Christians do (namely, those living in Indonesia).
I am not saying that they are not FMF, i am simply stating that the use of Allah is
generic to a particular culture or society that has been influenced by Islam, as has
Indonesia, Pakistani Christians are also Christian and just by way of contrast would
never use the term Allah, neither would American Christians either, to cite a specific
cul ...[text shortened]... tate that the use of Allah is generic to all Christians
throughout the earth, is unacceptable.
For whatever reason, Indonesian Christians do not seem to have the same aversion towards Islamic culture that Pakistani Christians seem to have. Perhaps Christians and Muslims get along with each other a lot better in Indonesia than they do in Pakistan?
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Originally posted by Melanerpesyes this is now apparent, FMF states that its a reality of Christianity by virtue of
I don't think FMF is saying that all Christians use the term Allah. He's saying that some Christians do (namely, those living in Indonesia).
For whatever reason, Indonesian Christians do not seem to have the same aversion towards Islamic culture that Pakistani Christians seem to have. Perhaps Christians and Muslims get along with each other a lot better in Indonesia than they do in Pakistan?
Indonesians being Christian, whereas i say, its a reality of Indonesian Christians and
not a reality of Christianity itself, other than where it pertains to Indonesia and its
culture and practices.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut are not Indonesian Christians a part of Christianity itself, robbie? How can the reality of Christianity in Indonesia be "not a reality of Christianity itself"?
yes this is now apparent, FMF states that its a reality of Christianity by virtue of
Indonesians being Christian, whereas i say, its a reality of Indonesian Christians and
not a reality of Christianity itself, other than where it pertains to Indonesia and its
culture and practices.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieLikewise, there are many things that are a reality of American Christians or English-speaking Christians that are not the full reality of "Christianity itself". "Christianity itself" is something much bigger than any particular language or culture.
yes this is now apparent, FMF states that its a reality of Christianity by virtue of
Indonesians being Christian, whereas i say, its a reality of Indonesian Christians and
not a reality of Christianity itself, other than where it pertains to Indonesia and its
culture and practices.
I think this is the point FMF is making?
Originally posted by MelanerpesWhat I'd like to know from robbie, is, which countries with Christian populations around the world are, according to him, part of the "reality of Christianity itself" and which are not part of the "reality of Christianity itself"? The "reality of Indonesian Christians", apparently, is "not a reality of Christianity itself". What other countries does he have on this list?
Likewise, there are many things that are a reality of American Christians or English-speaking Christians that are not the full reality of "Christianity itself". "Christianity itself" is something much bigger than any particular language or culture.
I think this is the point FMF is making?
Originally posted by FMFIndonesian christians are not representative of any reality other than their own, Mel
What I'd like to know from robbie, is, which countries with Christian populations around the world are, according to him, part of the "reality of Christianity itself" and which are [b]not part of the "reality of Christianity itself"? The "reality of Indonesian Christians", apparently, is "not a reality of Christianity itself". What other countries does he have on this list?[/b]
put it rather excellently when he stated, that the Christian reality is greater than any
language or culture, suck it up!