Society

Originally posted by karoly aczel
We have to take a step forward, my dear friend, and face up to the fact that me ,you, FMF,etc. all inhabit the same world at this time.

Your comment here smacks of denial-unless I am missing something.
(So I will await a further reply-if any- before continuing)

Jesus told us that there would be signs and to watch out for them in the future. Would this time period we are in now not be considered in the future?
He also cleary indicated that "most" would not recognize or see them or notice them.
Did he just state this to be blowing off steam or to mess with our minds or to play a joke? I don't think so. There was a reason he stated this and that was to warn those that were truly paying attention to notice them and take the actions neccasary to survive thru them just as Noah and his family did.
Again....he said "most" would not be paying atention just as the ones before the flood did not and that is evident as is even seen here at RHP where "MOST" are arguing against this issue and saying it isn't so.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Whatever figures or guesstimates you guys (G-75,etc.) come up with should be noted that these numbers should be done on a per capita basis.
In the last 100 years the worlds poplulation has gone from less than a billion to 7 billion!
So it 's easy to say there are more murders , violence,etc. but we have to look at those numbers in relation to the p ...[text shortened]... hink violence and violent acts have gone down , per capita, or remained the same,if anything.

Did Jesus say these things you are mentioning would not happen all thru history since he was on earth and would only happen during the last days he spoke of? No. Was he only speaking of the last 20 or so years? No.

Originally posted by galveston75
No need for the insults................

Sorry. I am genuinely sorry.
It was not my intention at all to insult you, and I am not the sort of guy that would ask you to pull your head out or your arse, call you vile for being a meat eater, or insinuate that your faith is weak/wrong because your are a member of the JW's.

In fact I had to re-read my post and I can only imagine that you are referring to my "sheer stupidity" comment, which was not directed at you personally, and with hindsight I would've/should've replaced "sheer studidity" with "limited foresight" , or something like that to make my point. Ok?

Originally posted by galveston75
Jesus told us that there would be signs and to watch out for them in the future. Would this time period we are in now not be considered in the future?
He also cleary indicated that "most" would not recognize or see them or notice them.
Did he just state this to be blowing off steam or to mess with our minds or to play a joke? I don't think so. There ...[text shortened]... ven seen here at RHP where "MOST" are arguing against this issue and saying it isn't so.

I would consider around this time is the "future" that JC speaks of.

I also think there are some "Earth changes" coming that may be synonymous with some of the JW teachings.
Obviously I will get some things wrong and so will you.

It seems part of our difference has to do with our linguistical differences , despite speaking the same language 😉 , but the rest has to do with the specific parcel, in this case Jesus 'coming back', which I'm not so sure I agree with. Whether it is a part of someone else's universe in a way that is liberating and makes complete sense to them is fine by me, but I may or may not be partaking in that particular event. Our situations may cross paths. Or they may not.

All that matters is that you have conviction in your understanding of the universe, and in your case, a faith in Jehovah God, whereas I have my own conviction about the things I believe in. Positive things-as do you.

I hope this clears up my intentions a bit 🙂

Peace

Originally posted by galveston75
Did Jesus say these things you are mentioning would not happen all thru history since he was on earth and would only happen during the last days he spoke of? No. Was he only speaking of the last 20 or so years? No.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here?

20 years can go by in a blink, and it's easy to miss if you are distracted especially by some foxy lady- Brrrr.

Seriously though, can you give me one or two 'specific' things that JC said would come to pass?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Sorry. I am genuinely sorry.
It was not my intention at all to insult you, and I am not the sort of guy that would ask you to pull your head out or your arse, call you vile for being a meat eater, or insinuate that your faith is weak/wrong because your are a member of the JW's.

In fact I had to re-read my post and I can only imagine that you are re ...[text shortened]... heer studidity" with "limited foresight" , or something like that to make my point. Ok?

Well I guess I'll let it slide for this time..Lol

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I'm not sure what you are getting at here?

20 years can go by in a blink, and it's easy to miss if you are distracted especially by some foxy lady- Brrrr.

Seriously though, can you give me one or two 'specific' things that JC said would come to pass?

A couple of prophecies by Jesus:

1. You will hear of wars and rumors of war.
2. In various places there will be famines and earthquakes.
3. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
4. You (Christians) will be hated by all nations because of My name.
5. Many will come saying, "I am the Christ." They will mislead many.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I would consider around this time is the "future" that JC speaks of.

I also think there are some "Earth changes" coming that may be synonymous with some of the JW teachings.
Obviously I will get some things wrong and so will you.

It seems part of our difference has to do with our linguistical differences , despite speaking the same language 😉 ...[text shortened]... n. Positive things-as do you.

I hope this clears up my intentions a bit 🙂

Peace

Yes the misunderstandings are an easy thing that happens to all of us. But one has to understand that Jesus did not misunderstand his meanings with his words. And of course that means it's up to us to get those clear meanings and by the way he spoke and described, is that some of his followers would understand and notice those signs as being something different and out of the ordinary from the norm but that MOST would not.
If they weren't noticable and out of the norm then we'd never have a chance of seeing them.
So it is really a caring and loving thing on his and his Father's part to warn. In fact God has never acted on humans in a deathly way without fair and clear warnings and giving us the chance to react and change into a way that he wants us to and that is always been for the betterment of us.

And yes there very easily could be ways the earth may change. Revelation is full of symbolics but many of those could still be real and used by God to show his intentions in cleansing the earth.

And one really big confusion is Jesus return. Is it to the literal surface of the planet or is is a description of his return with reguards his inflaunce and guidance which can be felt from his heavenly throne beside his Father to the earth?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I'm not sure what you are getting at here?

20 years can go by in a blink, and it's easy to miss if you are distracted especially by some foxy lady- Brrrr.

Seriously though, can you give me one or two 'specific' things that JC said would come to pass?

All the things Jesus mentioned have on some level always happened. No arguing there. But he said there would be a rise or amount of these things.
For example, wars. They have almost always been, but he said "reports of wars".
What could that mean today as apposed to say 1700 years ago or say in the mid 1800's?
There were wars then and many in the local areas did know about them. But did the whole world know about that local war or wars?
How would the whole world now know about any wars on the earth today? Would we all know about them or still in just that local area?

Originally posted by RJHinds
A couple of prophecies by Jesus:

1. You will hear of wars and rumors of war.
2. In various places there will be famines and earthquakes.
3. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
4. You (Christians) will be hated by all nations because of My name.

1. Well that narrows things down to any point in recorded history.

2. Again, narrows it down to any point in recorded history.

3. Given that you view anyone who doesn't believe in your particular version of Christianity
this again narrows things down to any point in recorded history.

4. Hasn't happened, and probably won't happen, and is highly unlikely to any time soon.


Now if JC had predicted not only the existence of the Grand National horse racing meet but also
predicted this years winner that would be impressive.

Predicting that in the future there will be wars, famines, people talking nonsense, and that there
will be people who dislike Christians for their beliefs (particularly given how bloody stupid they are...
JC demands that his followers act like arse holes and then predicts that people wont like them...
Do we think this surprising?) is not evidence of any great predictive power.
And is certainly not in any way useful.

Given that people have been using these prophecies to predict the end of the world since the time of
JC (if he ever existed) till the present, and have always been wrong, you can see that these vague and
ambiguous 'prophecies' are so woolly and open to interpretation that they are absolutely useless and
meaningless.

Or at least you could see it if you were not a blinded religious fanatic and a moron to boot.

Originally posted by googlefudge
1. Well that narrows things down to any point in recorded history.

2. Again, narrows it down to any point in recorded history.

3. Given that you view anyone who doesn't believe in your particular version of Christianity
this again narrows things down to any point in recorded history.

4. Hasn't happened, and probably won't happen, and is highly ...[text shortened]... at least you could see it if you were not a blinded religious fanatic and a moron to boot.

Christ predicted His death and that He would raise the temple of His body back to life after 3 days. How is that for a prophecy?

Here is a list of scriptures and the events that were prophesied about Jesus that came true.

He did exist..............

Genesis:
Shiloh (Ge 49:10): w07 12/1 23-25; w04 1/15 29; w02 10/1 17-20; kl 93; w92 10/1 8; wi 12-13; it-1 491-492; it-2 127, 928-929
“words of elegance” (Ge 49:21): w02 8/15 12; it-2 470-471
Deuteronomy:
prophet like Moses (De 18:15, 18, 19): g04 4/8 12-13; w00 2/15 24; wi 14-15, 29-30; w91 11/15 28-31; it-2 440-441
Psalms: si 105-106; it-2 709-711
Psalm 2: w04 7/15 15-20; kl 36, 38; it-1 507; ws 22-24
Psalm 72: w04 11/1 6-7; it-2 993
‘charm upon lips’ (Ps 45:2): w02 8/15 12
‘ears opened up’ (Ps 40:6; Heb 10:5): w86 8/15 21
“go subduing in the midst of your enemies” (Ps 110:2): gt 132
‘hated without cause’ (Ps 35:19; Joh 15:25): w86 8/15 21
“little less than godlike ones” (Ps 8:5): it-2 1002
no bones broken (Ps 34:20): w91 3/1 8; gt 127
poisonous plant given (Ps 69:21): it-2 650
rule amid enemies (Ps 2): ws 22-27
“sacrifice and offering you did not delight in” (Ps 40:6; Heb 10:5): w90 10/15 12
“sit at my right hand” (Ps 110:1): cl 194; it-2 1002-1003, 1035
use of ‘proverbial sayings,’ “illustrations” (Ps 78:2; Mt 13:35): cf 119
“why have you left me?” (Ps 22:1): w87 6/15 31
“you have taken gifts in the form of men” (Ps 68:18): w99 6/1 9-10
Isaiah: w08 10/1 4-6; si 123; it-1 1223
Isaiah 9:6, 7: w07 5/15 6; cf 23, 189; ip-1 129-132; w87 4/1 10-20; w86 9/15 16; ws 13-28, 161-169, 178
Isaiah 49: ip-2 136-146; it-1 37
Isaiah 50:4-11: ip-2 157-164; w95 8/1 14-15
Isaiah 59:21: ip-2 300-301
Isaiah 61:1-3: ip-2 322, 324-326
“call his name Immanuel” (Isa 7:14): ip-1 107-108; it-1 1187-1189
declares good news to poor (Isa 61:1; Lu 4:18): it-2 653
Galilee to ‘see a great light’ (Isa 9:1, 2): ip-1 125-127; w93 4/1 10-11; gt 67; w88 4/15 9; it-2 470-471; w87 4/1 14
“leader and commander” (Isa 55:4): w07 4/1 27; ip-2 238-242; it-2 70
“light of the nations” (Isa 42:6): ip-2 37-38, 40-41; w93 1/15 10
‘maiden pregnant’ with (Isa 7:14): w08 10/1 4; it-2 1158
“my servant” (Isa 42:1-7): ip-2 30-32, 35-38, 40-41; w98 8/1 5; w93 1/15 10; gt 33; w86 8/15 24-25
“my servant” (Isa 52:13–53:12): ip-2 194-214; gu 21-22; ct 107-109; w92 10/1 14; wi 28-29; g91 6/22 9-11; si 119, 122
“root of Jesse” (Isa 11:10): w08 10/1 4-5; w06 12/1 9; re 84; w94 8/15 31; si 123; it-2 51
safeguarded (Isa 42:6): w05 6/1 9
“signal for the peoples” (Isa 11:10; 62:10): ip-2 345-346; ip-1 165-166; w92 10/1 19; wi 24-25, 31; it-2 942
spit upon (Isa 50:6): cf 172; ip-2 159-161; it-2 1030
‘twig and sprout from Jesse’ (Isa 11:1-10): w08 10/1 4-5; w06 12/1 9; re 84; ip-1 159-161, 163-166; si 120, 123; rs 140; it-1 362; it-2 69, 476
“will not cry out” (Isa 42:2; Mt 12:19): ip-2 31-32; it-1 878
“Wonderful Counselor” (Isa 9:6): w07 5/15 6; cf 23; cl 211-213; ip-1 129-130; it-2 69-70
Jeremiah:
“Rachel weeping over her sons” (Jer 31:15): it-2 727
Ezekiel:
“my servant David” (Eze 34:23, 24; 37:24, 25): w07 8/1 11
Daniel:
“exactor to pass through” (Da 11:20): dp 233; w98 12/15 7; kl 36
“sacrifice and gift offering to cease” (Da 9:27): w90 10/15 12
“seventy weeks” (Da 9:24-27): w06 2/15 6; bh 197-199; w02 3/15 4-5; dp 186-197; w98 9/15 13-14; w95 11/1 10-11; kl 36; w92 10/1 11-14; wi 26-27, 29; w90 10/15 10-11; si 88, 291; gm 130-132; it-1 463, 467; it-2 616, 899-904; w86 10/1 5-6
“son of man” receives Kingdom (Da 7:13, 14): w88 1/1 10-11; w88 6/15 4-5; it-2 1002-1003, 1009; w86 10/15 5-6
Micah:
born in Bethlehem (Mic 5:2): w08 10/1 22-23; w03 8/15 18; kl 34, 36; sh 239; si 158; it-1 300
Zechariah: si 169, 172; it-2 1226
30 pieces of silver paid for (Zec 11:12, 13): it-2 130-131
“pierced” (Zec 12:10): w91 3/1 8-9; gt 127; si 169
“riding upon an ass” (Zec 9:9): w97 3/1 30; si 169
‘strike shepherd, let flock be scattered’ (Zec 13:7): si 169
Malachi:
“messenger of the covenant” (Mal 3:1): w07 4/1 22; w07 12/15 27-28; jd 179-182; re 31-32, 55-56; w89 7/1 30; it-2 385; w87 6/15 10-20
at death: si 198
Caiaphas’ prophecy: w06 1/15 12; gt 91; w89 5/15 9
“called a Nazarene” (Mt 2:23): ip-1 159; it-2 476
charts: jd 55; bh 200; ip-2 212; kl 37; sh 245; si 343-344; it-1 1223; it-2 387
descendant of David: w92 10/1 9-10
discussion: bh 199-201; wt 33-37; w00 5/15 16; kl 19, 21, 34, 36-38; w92 10/1 10-14; sh 236, 239-240, 245; si 177, 181, 186, 192; gm 130-133; pe 56; it-2 354; w87 3/1 6; w87 7/15 6; tp 61-63
not consciously maneuvered: g88 8/8 26-27
personal effort required: it-2 68
preaching work: it-2 671-672
temple in Jerusalem essential: g90 12/8 13

Originally posted by galveston75
Big words but not the truth to those who know God and the world as it is now.
The point is if Satan were to just go away and leave us alone and all would just love one another and let there be happiness with no one trying to hurt us, I'm all for it. Bring it on.
But man has tried now for thousands of years to be self sufficient and to govern ourselve other earthwide, go for it. But it's never happened and never will if it's left up to us.

You've told me to watch "the news". I've told you I do. You've cited the number of YouTube posts showing something or other compared to the number posted in the 'internet-less' 60s and 70s. I've pointed out that that is meaningless. You frequently reference the JW organisation's printed material's predictions about 'end times', which is consistently wrong, infamously so. And then I asked you in return, what material - that challenges your views - do you read? Do you have an answer?

Originally posted by RJHinds
A couple of prophecies by Jesus:

1. You will hear of wars and rumors of war.
2. In various places there will be famines and earthquakes.
3. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
4. You (Christians) will be hated by all nations because of My name.
5. Many will come saying, "I am the Christ." They will mislead many.

Yes, i can see how you can infer this ... this, er -persecution complex
but clearly you are not in the minority in my society, (nor in yours), the society which
I comment on because it is where I reside.

As for prophecies I would advise this: you have some power over the events that are about to befall our beloved Earth.
"God" does not want us to act like sheep (in this sense) and just "bah-bah" while "He" fixes all our problems , or so your theology would leave me believe. "God" wants us to put our potential into action. To unify and not to conquer, through the acts of peace and not war,etc,etc. Do you get where I'm going with this?
Do you think you could find it in your heart to co-exist with say .. muslims or devout hindus (in a completely non-violent , non-coercive context that is) ?
It is said that that is why "aliens" dont land on the white house lawn -because we are scared enough of our own population and our own different racial features, let alone that of a completely alien humanoid, for example.. or even worse still - a lizard man or a dolphin man

Originally posted by galveston75
Yes the misunderstandings are an easy thing that happens to all of us. But one has to understand that Jesus did not misunderstand his meanings with his words. And of course that means it's up to us to get those clear meanings and by the way he spoke and described, is that some of his followers would understand and notice those signs as being something di ...[text shortened]... unce and guidance which can be felt from his heavenly throne beside his Father to the earth?

Yes, I'm not sure about a lot of that and will not claim knowledge when I have no idea🙂
But at the start you talk about Jesus' words. There is absolutely no way to know whether his words were genuine or not. I believe some, or even a lot of them WERE true. But nevertheless, they were translated and handed down by man.
On the other hand we can take video recordings of a so called Osho, aka the Baghwan (I'm not sure of the spelling, but he did change his name to Osho later in his life).
When I first read, listened and viewed his stuff I was trying to work out whether he was the real deal or not.
Later, I realized that we are all the real deal. That it is up to us what we take on and what we dont. The messenger is not important.
After listening to Osho for 30 mins you get transported from this life. He is the m,aster story teller. It's his job. I could tell the story, but why do it when the best is there to do it?
Understand? Everyone has a role. Some people are born not knowing what their role is until it is right in front of them, then they perform their ,lets say "breathtaking" role - their 15 mins of fame if you will. At that stage you realize your destiny. Completely beyond words but so overwhelming as to not be able to keep a smile down.

Humanity is extremly complex. Soome people's roles last a lifetime, others not so long but since the title of the thread is "society" I guess i better spit out a few more words about that 😛

Society,like a comittee is the shortest distance between 2 points/people. It serves no purpose other than to suck life energy from a beautiful, abundant life that most of us here on rhp enjoy.
I say give "society" it's absolute bare minimum to survive and carry out it s functions to serve humans. Other than that , when societies start getting exploited for other people's greedy ends, they must be torn down and shown for what they really are.

Peace.