Originally posted by sonshipEverybody that professes to be Christian need to know Christ more. However there are many that do not know what it is to 'know' Christ. Rather than take the Bible method of knowing God and Christ they often go off on a tangent and completely off the point and into dangerous territory of completely ignoring Christ.
[b] You clearly do not know Christ.
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Yes I do. But surely I need to know Him more.[/b]
Here it is again:
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. (1 John 2:3-6 KJV)
To know Christ, to abide in Christ, to walk with Christ, to be in Christ = KEEPING CHRIST'S COMMANDMENTS
Everybody's method is different and Christ will judge. I dont care for your method and you dont care for mine and that is fine. My method is to say as John did ... Christ's commandments are not grevious .. my strength and conviction to follow Christ comes from God.
I have no intention of boasting that I am a sinner and that I am fallen and I cannot do anything. To me that is negative and unproductive. The jokers that talk that way leave church to go home and continue with their same old sinful lifestyle . they never change because they are convinced that claiming to be a weak sinner is a virtue and nothing more is required .. utter foolishness and totally contrary to the Bible.
Like Christ said .. .. how can you call me Lord Lord and not do what I say
That says it all.
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Originally posted by Rajk999Here it is again:
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
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The basic and most fundamental commandment from Christ is that we believe into Him:
" Then they said to Him, What shall we do that we may work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe into Him whom He has sent." (John 6:28,29)
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
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A believer's knowing of Christ is a life long process of deepening. It should expand, should deepen, should become more and more acute.
Though John's style here is somewhat binary, the whole tenor of the epistle indicates that he speaks in relative terms. And that is why there are levels of maturity in the audience:
Little children, young men, fathers.
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected:
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This establishes precisely my point above. Knowing God here is a matter of the process of being perfected. It is a deepening growth. John did not say -
"fathers know God, young men don't" OR
" young men know God, little children don't"
No Christian should be condemned by reading your passage. They however may be legitimately convicted that they need to grow and deepen their obedience and knowing of God.
Your brandishing of the passage is self righteous.
And the reason why you stay clear of personal testimony is because you don't want to expose areas in which you still do not know God very well.
I have no problem with giving personal testimony because I understand that John's word there is relative and means being perfected more and more.
Hello ?!. To be born of God means to have to grow in God.
It is a matter of life, maturation, development.
hereby know we that we are in him.
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I may be "in Him" in one area of my life.
Yet in another area He needs to gain more control so that I would be "in Him" in that area as well.
Since John speaks of this life as a "seed" (1 John 3:9)
A "seed" of life of course requires growing.
"Everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God."
This is of course a matter of the seed of divine life growing. The more growth the more perfecting to know God.
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. (1 John 2:3-6 KJV)
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And since there are in the audience of the epistle levels of maturity - little children, young men, fathers, there obviously are levels of this walking by God.
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'Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it.They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.
And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone's secret life.' (Rom 2:14-16).'
Am currently ruminating on the meaning of the above passage, in relation to sin and hell.
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Originally posted by Rajk999I have no intention of boasting that I am a sinner and that I am fallen and I cannot do anything.
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You have a twisted and warped way of thinking here.
For Paul to say that he boasts in his weakness that the power of Christ's power may rest on Him was a boast in Christ. He was not exalted his inability. He was exalting in Christ's grace.
Your twisting of the one's confession of his need for the grace of Christ is warped. Someone seems to have bewitched you.
"O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you ... ?" (Gal. 3:1)
To me that is negative and unproductive.
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Since your caricature is a lie and reveals a twisted accusation against those confessing their weakness and need for Christ's grace, there is no need to defend confession as not productive.
The jokers that talk that way leave church to go home and continue with their same old sinful lifestyle .
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This is a blanket general accusation.
When Paul said that when he was weak then he was strong, through the grace of Christ, it was not an excuse to live sinfully.
Neither need the lover of Jesus today take it that way.
Those who do abuse freedom in Christ to live in sin Paul deals with in Galatians
" Do not be deceived: God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
For he who sows unto his own flesh will reap corruption of the flesh, but he who sows unto the Spirit will of the Spirit reap eternal life." (Gal. 6:7,8)
The believers examined at the judgment seat of Christ are of two catagories:
1.) Saved and rewarded.
2.) Saved and disciplined.
" If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward.
If anyone's work us consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14,15)
The ones whose salvation is "yet as through fire" and who "suffer loss" may include those who reap corruption in the flesh though being believers.
The inheriting of eternal life is delayed yet not eternally lost.
The warning of "saved, yet so as through fire" is so open ended that it could include a very wide spectrum of possible disciplines administered by God.
the warning of "suffer loss" is so open ended that it could also include a very wide spectrum of possible punishments administered by God to a saved believer.
they never change because they are convinced that claiming to be a weak sinner is a virtue and nothing more is required
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This again is not necessarily true generalization to every Christian who does not embrace your Arminian elevator salvation.
IE. "Saved this moment, lost the next."
"Saved yesterday, lost this afternoon."
"Up and down, up and down, for the rest of your life as a Christian."
.. utter foolishness and totally contrary to the Bible.
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Now we will watch on as it is evident that you have no way to prove that First Corinthians 3:11-15 is contrary to the Bible.
Watch the deafening silence on your part to refute this passage.
Originally posted by Rajk999This is hypocritical, at best.
Everybody that professes to be Christian need to know Christ more. However there are many that do not know what it is to 'know' Christ. Rather than take the Bible method of knowing God and Christ they often go off on a tangent and completely off the point and into dangerous territory of completely ignoring Christ.
Here it is again:
[i]And hereby we do ...[text shortened]... rist said ..[b] .. how can you call me Lord Lord and not do what I say
That says it all.[/b]
And even if you were a saint, following every jot of Christ's commandments to the letter, you certainly wouldn't be in here berating good Christians for imagined wrongdoings. You wouldn't be in here judging them with no information beyond your own assumptions.
Originally posted by Suzianne“As long as a person is involved with warfare, trying to defend or attack, then his action is not sacred; it is mundane, dualistic, a battlefield situation.”
After all, a lot of points get lost when engaging in forum warfare.That's why I think it is counter-productive. And when a good forum topic gets left in the dust (whether by design or not), it's tragic and unnecessary.
Chögyam Trungpa
Originally posted by sonshipWhat a foolish little man you are! You must be accustomed to preaching to illiterates. I had dealt with this passage on more than one occasion. Those who can read will see clearly that 1 Cor 3 speaks of several categories of Christian You deceitfully stop your quote at verse 15 when verses 16 & 17 are the verses that speak of the Christian that continues with a sinful lifestyle and defiles Gods temple:
...Now we will watch on as it is evident that you have no way to prove that [b]First Corinthians 3:11-15 is contrary to the Bible.
Watch the deafening silence on your part to refute this passage.[/b]
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (1 Corinthians 3:16-17 KJV)
Like so many other passages which you twist and ignore this one is saying that GOD WILL DESTROY THOSE WHO DEFILE THIS TEMPLE.
Sin defiles the temple of God. Sinners can reach a point where then is no more forgiveness.