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We have to allow Christ to renew our minds.
The renewing of our minds will sometime involve the Holy Spirit telling us -
"Don't think that way. Don't think like that anymore."
We are transformed by the renewing of the mind (Romans 12:2).
We are transformed from glory to glory into the same image by gazing on the Lord in our hearts with "unveiled face." (2 Cor. 3:17,18)
We need to be transformed out of our miseries.
We need transformation out of our misunderstanding or shallow apprehension of the God's word too.
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-Removed-I am not avoiding the question. I am speaking from my experience.
Go ahead and seek resolution to a doctrinal problem.
Still pour out your heart to God.
I sought God concerning teachings and doctrines before.
I got to find out that " the truth is in Jesus " (Eph. 4:21).
Didn't He say so all along - "I am the way and the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6)
The place of destination is a Person.
The way to that place is also a Person.
Let me ask you this. When all the believers are conformed to the image of the Son of God according to Romans 8:29 do you think we will still have doctrinal arguments among each other?
Do you think when we are all conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God we will see things differently from how the Son of God sees things ?
Sooner or latter we will see everything as through the eyes of Christ. Why not sooner rather than latter ?
So I encourage opening up to Christ's dispensing to speed us along the way to that destination.
You asked me awhile back if I could be mistaken. And I answer yes. Its possible that I misunderstand something in the Word of God. Now I turn the question to you. Could you also be mistaken?
I think you could as well.
Since we are not going to persuade each other to back down on what we believe, I suggest we stop fighting and take the matter to the Lord Himself.
You have in essence taken an approach "Feel bad. Feel bad. You should feel bad. I feel bad to think about that. You have to feel bad. Why don't you feel bad? Let me give you some more descriptions so you will feel bad."
I want to feel as Jesus Himself feels. So I plan to take the matter to the Lord Himself. And I hope to gain the Lord's view and the Lord's feeling.
Originally posted by lemon limeDon't be silly. You're just making this up.
It seems your idea of moral coherency is never having to suffer consequences, because nothing you do is wrong enough for you to suffer too much... a little bit maybe, but not very much. This lopsided "I can do no wrong" idea of morality is not morality.
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Originally posted by FMFI answered that question. However, you did not answer my request to provide the full post which contained my sentence, nor the link.
If someone believes that the notion of "eternal punishment" is unjust, what must they do with the rest of what's in the Bible?
Discard it or not?
You can discard your Bible at any time. Maybe you have already.
I don't think you're waiting for my advice.
Go read my reply. And don't expect me to beg you not to discard your Bible.
Go read my post about the question and hunt for something inconsistent or something you can point out as hypocrisy. If that is what you want to live for - pointing out the hypocrisy of followers of Jesus.
So go find some hypocrisy.
Originally posted by sonshipDid you answer it in a post addressed to me? Or is it buried in some other post addressed to someone else or one addressed to nobody in particular?
I answered that question. However, you did not answer my request to provide the full post which contained my sentence, nor the link.
You can discard your Bible at any time. Maybe you have already.
I don't think you're waiting for my advice.
Go read my reply. And don't expect me to beg you not to discard your Bible.
Go read my post abou ...[text shortened]... to live for - pointing out the hypocrisy of followers of Jesus.
So go find some hypocrisy.
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Originally posted by sonshipBut I haven't accused you of hypocrisy on the issue of "eternal torture", as you know full well.
Go read my post about the question and hunt for something inconsistent or something you can point out as hypocrisy. If that is what you want to live for - pointing out the hypocrisy of followers of Jesus.
I have accused the ideology you propagate of being morally incoherent and repugnant.
You are now trying to dismiss, in your own miffed and pouting way, me sharing this observation with you ~ on a debate and discussion forum dedicated precisely to the sharing of views on precisely issues such as this ~ as "what [I] want to live for", but this is just silly condescension.
And it does not restore to you any credibility as a moral commentator when your own moral compass has such a ghastly mess of superstition and such a depraved notion of "perfect justice" at its very core.
Originally posted by lemon limerape ~ hefty number of years in prison
So what in your opinion would be the proper reward for rape, murder, theft, lying, etc in this life?
murder ~ anything up to life imprisonment
theft ~ ranging from community service to time in prison
lying ~ if it's fraud or perjury then similar to theft
Originally posted by FMFSo what punishment do you think a person should suffer at the hand of God for rejecting God's salvation through Jesus Christ after death?
rape ~ hefty number of years in prison
murder ~ anything up to life imprisonment
theft ~ ranging from community service to time in prison
lying ~ if it's fraud or perjury then similar to theft
Originally posted by josephwWhen I was a Christian, I believed non-believers died and did not have life after death. The idea that non-believers deserve to be tortured in agony for eternity for their non-belief has always been preposterous and morally incoherent to me. Even you have referred to the notion as "repulsive".
So what punishment do you think a person should suffer at the hand of God for rejecting God's salvation through Jesus Christ after death?