Originally posted by FMFWhat is "morally incoherent" is believing anything you do in this life will result in a reward. So what in your opinion would be the proper reward for rape, murder, theft, lying, etc in this life? It seems your idea of moral coherency is never having to suffer consequences, because nothing you do is wrong enough for you to suffer too much... a little bit maybe, but not very much.
[b]abominable morally
Eternal punishment is terrible. It is the complete defeat forever of the irreconcilable rebels against God who are so completely vanquished, that the very thought of unrepentant breaking of His law and opposing Him is too terrible to contemplate.
So we thank God for all He did in Christ that we may be saved.
In eternity futu ...[text shortened]... natural regime that you imagine, is 'might is right'. It is crude and preposterous and demented.
This lopsided "I can do no wrong" idea of morality is not morality... this is just you thinking you're either deserving of a reward or nothing at all, except perhaps a light slap on the hand.
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Originally posted by divegeester
I told you I did not believe that the lake of fire was literal. What it represents is irrelevant.
Originally posted by lemon lime
"You could at least offer some hint or explanation of what you think it represents, because simply saying it's a metaphor is not enough. Calling the lake of fire a metaphor because it doesn't appeal to you or seem right is not a persuasive argument... it's meaningless unless you are able illustrate what you believe the lake of fire represents.
Metaphors (in the Bible) are easily distinguishable from statements meant to be taken literally. Symbolism more often than not come with explanations, either within the same text or elsewhere in the Bible. For example, prophesies alluding to horns and beasts (and mountains) refer to nations and kingdoms, and it's commonly understood that the word "horn" denotes strength, power and dominion.
If the lake of fire is not literal then what it represents is relevant, but what can a 'metaphorical' lake of fire represent other than the image of a consuming fire?"
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-Removed-I'm exasperated, how can Christians believe this.
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If I were you ... and I am serious .... if I were you ... I would take this exasperation to God in prayer, pouring out my heart to God UNTIL I got through to remain in peace in the presence of Christians like myself who are convinced Jesus taught thus.
Rather than hunt for Christians to argue with about it, I would take the matter before God.
For 30 years I sometimes got exasperated why so many Christians cannot see the revelation of the local church. God doesn't seem to honor my exasperation.
And frankly I don't see the Holy Spirit honoring your disgust, exasperation, bafflement, and whatever other expressions we could use to describe how you detest at several or more passages in the Bible. These passages many Christian take at face value.
I don't stand on my own merit. I stand upon Christ as my righteousness. I stand clothed before God with Christ as my merit.
So your telling me that you are on a higher ground ethically because of the way you feel, doesn't effect me. First Corinthians 4:3 governs me some in matters of criticism. Now to be examined by Christ, that concerns me a lot. But to be examined morally by you because I believe certain words out of the mouth of God ?
NET Bible
So for me, it is a minor matter that I am judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But to me this is a slight matter that I am judged by you or by any man. I do not even judge myself.
-Removed-From verse twelve onwards in Revelation, we are confronted with one symbol or metaphor after another for the remainder of the book. It is therefore more likely that the 'fire of hell' is likewise a metaphor rather than a literal statement.
'A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.'
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-Removed-Himself, Always most importantly Himself.
Touching God Himself - all my questions are answered.
You've read Phil. 4:7.
New American Standard Bible
And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
King James Bible
And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
-Removed-I never mentioned the word doctrine really, I don't think.
I did encourage you to pour out your heart to God about anything that is a bothering to you.
Actually we don't have to wait for the bothering.
But if it is disagreement with Christian brothers or something else doctrinal, practical, spiritual, it is good to pour out our hearts to the Lord.
I can't do anything about certain teachings that I may not like, except to let God Himself be dispensed into me, more and more.
If you need to convince the brothers more about God's love, you need to be dispensed into more by Christ. This is the only thing we will take from this age into the next age - the Christ that has been wrought into our beings.
So we need to always open up to receive Him. This often involves pouring out our hearts to God in deep honesty - even about things concerning Himself that we have contraversy with or do not understand or perhaps see from a wrong angle.
And this thinking causes us much agitation, much unhappiness and bad mood. So I go to the Lord and open up under His precious blood -
'Lord Jesus. I really don't like ___________. But Lord I open up completely to You."
It is way of contacting God and the peace of God which is win, win. For God's purpose is to dispense Christ into us for the building up of the organic Body of Christ and the living temple - the habitation of God in spirit.
And yes, the only thing I can do about the teaching of the lake of fire is be dispensed into more and more and more by Christ Himself.