Spiritual Yard Sale

Originally posted by FMF
No amount of questioning the truthfulness of someone else's revelations about themselves is going to disguise the fact that the issue for you seems to be that if it does not coincide with your own experience or understanding then it is a "lie".

I cannot say God has not entered my life and changed me, if I did I'd be lying.
I can say that unless you've known God through Jesus Christ you don't have
clue what has happen to me and saying you were just like me in my beliefs
is something beyond your grasp. You can make the claims you were a Christain
I'm not disputing that, but what does mean if you never really knew Christ?
It means you have not walked away from the Son of God, because that means
you had to have a relationship with Him in order to do that.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay

No, its basically this did you have a relationship with God in Jesus Christ or were you just playing church making claims that you now admit were not
real?

It was real.

You and anyone else can claim to be whatever you want, I asked you
before what was so profound that could turn one from God in Christ, still
waiting on that answer.

I stopped believing.

So. Are you able to stop putting this all down to it just being me "lying" now? I offer you the common courtesy of not calling you a "liar" when you state that you were a Christian, say, ten years ago, and that you are still one now [even if the standard you apply to me, if applied to you, means that we do not know for sure that you are one].

Originally posted by FMF
Just saying someone who has had a different experience from you is "lying" or that one "cannot say" something that is different from your understanding or different from what you have experienced doesn't really work.

Oh you and I are both saying you had a different experience than the one I had,
you left the one you had, because it was less than something else.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay

I cannot say God has not entered my life and changed me, if I did I'd be lying.

No one is calling you a liar. Then issue is that you are seeking to explain my life experience as being a case of me lying. I didn't say you were lying about yourself.

I can say that unless you've known God through Jesus Christ you don't have clue what has happen to me and saying you were just like me in my beliefs is something beyond your grasp.

What has happened to you is not the issue here. What has happened to me is the issue.

You can make the claims you were a Christian I'm not disputing that, but what does mean if you never really knew Christ?

I did. Yes.

It means you have not walked away from the Son of God, because that means you had to have a relationship with Him in order to do that.

I did "have a relationship".

...you don't have clue what has happen to me and saying you were just like me in my beliefs is something beyond your grasp.

Are you saying that you will not concede that I was a Christian who had "a relationship with Christ" until I can demonstrate that my experience was exactly the same as yours?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Oh you and I are both saying you had a different experience than the one I had, you left the one you had, because it was less than something else.

I stopped believing. You have no need to project a different 'cause' of your own invention onto what happened to me. I have been clear.

Do we have to define being a Christian in terms of whether ones experience is the same or different to yours? Is that really what the definition comes down to?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
so we make mistakes.

The question is who? Which one of you is wrong?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I get that, right now it is beyond you, but does not have to be. Minus the
Zombie part.
Kelly

Along as i have a rational mind, it will be beyond me Kelly.

Originally posted by FMF
[b]No, its basically this did you have a relationship with God in Jesus Christ or were you just playing church making claims that you now admit were not
real?

It was real.

You and anyone else can claim to be whatever you want, I asked you
before what was so profound that could turn one from God in Christ, still
waiting on that answer.

I s rd you apply to me, if applied to you, means that we do not know for sure that you are one].[/b]

I have been maintaining you never had a relationship with God in Christ not that
you didn't "believe" at one time in your life. Believing in God is not the same thing
as having a relationship with Him, even the devil believes in God, but that doesn't
put them into a family style relationship as we can have with God.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I have been maintaining you never had a relationship with God in Christ not that you didn't "believe" at one time in your life. Believing in God is not the same thing as having a relationship with Him, even the devil believes in God, but that doesn't put them into a family style relationship as we can have with God.

I both believed in him and had a relationship with him, as I have made clear.

Originally posted by FMF
I both believed in him and had a relationship with him, as I have made clear.

And yet, something better than God came along and now you don't!?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Its simple, did you or do you have a relationship with God in Jesus Christ, will Jesus say I never knew you? If you had one, you cannot then say didn't unless your lie, if you never had one, than saying you walked away from it is a lie.

All you seem to have on this matter is that - because my experience is different from yours, I must be "lying"; because I am different from you, your perspective must represent the "truth" while mine is 'untrue'. This does not really work for me, KellyJay. Does it really work for you?

Originally posted by FMF
All you seem to have on this matter is that - because my experience is different from yours, I must be "lying"; because I am different from you, your perspective must represent the "truth" while mine is 'untrue'. This does not really work for me, KellyJay. Does it really work for you?

It does not matter what i think or you for that matter if God is real and can be
known now does it? If you want to tell me you had a relationship with God through
Jesus Christ and now you reject that, fine by me. What your telling me is that you
knew God through His Son and left Him for something else more worthy in your
point of view. If you want to tell me that you don't believe that is the case you
will have to clear up the confusion or drop the subject.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
And yet, something better than God came along and now you don't!?

I stopped believing the things that created and sustained the "relationship" we have been talking about.

Originally posted by FMF
I stopped believing the things that created and sustained the "relationship" we have been talking about.

I don't understand what you just said, could you say it in a different way please,
not trying to trap you, I really don't get it.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay

It does not matter what i think or you for that matter if God is real and can be known now does it?

If it "does not matter" why do you keep posting in order to offer the opinion that I am "lying"?

If you want to tell me you had a relationship with God through Jesus Christ and now you reject that, fine by me.

Thanks.

What your telling me is that you knew God through His Son and left Him for something else more worthy in your point of view.

You keep saying this and I keep telling you quite clearly that the reason I am no longer a Christian is because I stopped believing and not because I "left him for something else". I have made this clear repeatedly.

If you want to tell me that you don't believe that is the case you will have to clear up the confusion or drop the subject.

"The subject" here is your insistence that I am "lying". I am curious as to whether you are going to "drop the subject" or whether you personally need - for some reason - to tell yourself that our different experiences and understandings can only be explained by me "lying" and you telling yourself that you represent "the truth".