27 Feb '19 20:18>
@kellyjay saidSo although an atheist, the little old lady could have enough light anyway to be saved?
God will judge us by the light we have. This is why the gospel is so important!
@kellyjay saidSo although an atheist, the little old lady could have enough light anyway to be saved?
God will judge us by the light we have. This is why the gospel is so important!
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIf she lived it, do you know anyone who has without fail? We are as a people condemned already which is why we need salvation!
So although an atheist, the little old lady could have enough light anyway to be saved?
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThe need to be saved is due to failure, living a good enough life doesn’t require salvation.
So although an atheist, the little old lady could have enough light anyway to be saved?
@kellyjay saidYou missed - or willfully ignored - my point entirely.
It is difficult to grasp the evil in the world when good is called evil, and evil is called good.
@caljust saidThe life guard could have been a beach, a rock, a lifeboat or anything else! It wasn’t that they couldn’t be saved, it was that if they missed being saved, the water would kill them inspite of help being there. So sin not the savior would be the death of anyone outside of Christ.
You missed - or willfully ignored - my point entirely.
Sure, the evil in the world is terrible.
But (and admit it if you’re honest) the Lifeguard has the power to save people even against their will. Haven’t you heard about the New Covenant where He will “put his laws in their hearts” WITHOUT them asking? Sovereignly?
@kellyjay saidDunno KellyJay, if you ask me, you're sidestepping the essence of what CalJust is putting to you.
The life guard could have been a beach, a rock, a lifeboat or anything else! It wasn’t that they couldn’t be saved, it was that if they missed being saved, the water would kill them inspite of help being there. So sin not the savior would be the death of anyone outside of Christ.
@kellyjay saidWHAT??
The need to be saved is due to failure, living a good enough life doesn’t require salvation.
@suzianne saidAs you well know, KellyJay believes the exact opposite of this. He has merely expressed himself poorly.
So now peole can be "good enough" without Jesus?
@fmf saidI didn't ask you.
Dunno KellyJay, if you ask me, you're sidestepping the essence of what CalJust is putting to you.
"The lifeguard could have been ..." and then you list three inanimate objects?
Jesus is analogized as a "lifeguard" [by you, incidentally] but then, to avoid CalJust's point, you analogize Jesus/lifeguard as a non-sentient beach/rock/lifeboat?
That's quite the brazen little rhetorical shimmy you've made there, if you ask me.
@suzianne saidIf you lead a good life that didn't have sin in it you would not require a savior.
WHAT??
Could you read again what you wrote here and explain to me why you think this? It's against most of your writing here.
So now peole can be "good enough" without Jesus?
@kellyjay saidNo, I responded to you claiming (and this is YOUR analogy, not mine) that a lifeguard COULD NOT save a person unless that person ASKED TO BE SAVED and was WILLING.
He responded to a point I was making about the sin killing people not their beliefs.
@caljust saidIf you miss the life guard it is the water you are in you will drown in. You are right it was my analogy. and you changing it to make it something I was not addressing is not anything I am concerned about. You want to add to it to say something else go for it!
No, I responded to you claiming (and this is YOUR analogy, not mine) that a lifeguard COULD NOT save a person unless that person ASKED TO BE SAVED and was WILLING.
I pointed out that this is patently false, even on human terms. And in spiritual terms it is equally false, because there are numerous scriptures where God says that he will save his people WITHOUT them needing to ask, but as a sovereign act of His own will.
That, btw, is the definition of Grace.
@kellyjay saidWhy are you analogizing Jesus with inanimate objects?
You are right it was my analogy. and you changing it to make it something I was not addressing is not anything I am concerned about.
@caljust saidIt isn't a good analysis because what Kelly Jay and I would say is that the important thing is that someone is willing[ and that is the true character that manifests itself from within, right?
You missed - or willfully ignored - my point entirely.
Sure, the evil in the world is terrible.
But (and admit it if you’re honest) the Lifeguard has the power to save people even against their will. Haven’t you heard about the New Covenant where He will “put his laws in their hearts” WITHOUT them asking? Sovereignly?
@kellyjay saidDo you think anyone today can live a "sin-free" life?
If you lead a good life that didn't have sin in it you would not require a savior.
Salvation is only needed if someone has a need to be saved.
The little ole lady example that was brought had her living her life her way, but if
she had sin in her life it would be her sin that required Jesus. Sin is going to be
dealt with either through God's justice or mercy we choose wh ...[text shortened]... to be forced into it, but all will live out eternity in the
consequences of our choices and deeds.