27 Feb 19
@fmf saidFull quotes would be nice, not really holding my breath with you though.
So you and Nazi war criminals will "make it" if they are 'right with God' but "the little old lady that has spent her life trying to help people" won't "make it" if she's not 'right with God', right?
Your answer was "no".
So you won't "make it" even if you are 'right with God'?
27 Feb 19
@kellyjay saidWhat's this? A new foetal position? Are you going to ignore the content of the post this deflection is a 'reply' to?
Can you just quote the part you are talking about in your text and leave the rest of the text in place so I know what you are referring too? This one wasn't bad, but if you continue doing this I'll just ignore you questions.
27 Feb 19
@kellyjay saidMy "high opinion of human righteousness" is that it's more morally sound to be a lady who has spent her life trying to help people than a Nazi war criminal. You said there's "no difference". The latter can be "saved" if he is a sincere member of your religion but the lady deserves "damnation".
The Son of God laid down His life, your high opinion of human righteousness is the issue.
27 Feb 19
1 edit
@fmf saidI guess you really don't want an answer only means ask and ask and ask me a question, moving on. Quote me in full I'll respond.
Your answer was "no". So you won't "make it" even if you are 'right with God'? That can't be what you meant. Don't be so prideful.
27 Feb 19
@kellyjay saidYou said "No". Go back and look. The exchange is still there. No need to "quote" it. It's still there. I put something to you; you answered in the negative. It is still there on the previous page.
I guess you really don't want an answer only to means ask and ask and ask me a question, moving on. Quote me in full I'll respond.
27 Feb 19
You are saved by faith, and the works that you do are actually irrelevant.
Moreover, there is always an emphasis on the internal condition of man, right.
So, let's say that you are heavily invested in a public moralism but privately are burning with envy and constantly invested in cutting others down, and let's say that you are entirely unforgiving and bear grudges.
Those are things that are quite thoroughly destructive to the soul, and render the soul ugly, so no amount of public works and moralism are actually going to save someone like that.
So, it is impossible to deal with hypotheticals along these lines unless this is thought of, IMO.
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@philokalia saidDo you ever understand what you read and regurgitate?
You are saved by faith, and the works that you do are actually irrelevant.
27 Feb 19
@philokalia saidInteresting that you should think this, while at the same time thinking ~ as you explained a few months ago ~ that it's really "difficult" being a Christian and much "harder" than not being one.
You are saved by faith, and the works that you do are actually irrelevant.
You'd be really struggling if you were not saved only by faith but were also required to strive to obey Jesus' commandments as well. But you reckon it's already "difficult" enough without that, presumably.
Thankfully, the world is often touched by the supposedly "irrelevant" good works of Christians.
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27 Feb 19
@fmf saidAnd also the good works (lower case) of non Christians
Thankfully, the world is often touched by the supposedly "irrelevant" good works of Christians.
27 Feb 19
@kellyjay saidForgiveness is a beautiful thing, no disagreement there.
I think you are looking at God's forgiveness backwarks, its that He can and will forgive us all, even the worse of us.
Corrie Ten Boom forgiving a Nazi who was in the camp she was in.
[youtube] 3cfp51vLZb4 [/youtube]
I met this man (Protais Nshogoze) his story is amazing.
http://preparethewayministry.com/content/protais-rwandan-genocide-survivor’s-story
David Pawson "The Mercy of God" The forgiveness to Nazi too.
[youtube] PXqOJ7vx_9A [/youtube]
If I had a bag of sweets and said I was going to give one to everyone unconditionally, but in reality, was only prepared to give a sweet to people who came to me and asked for one, then my sweet giving could not be said to be unconditional. (As it was conditional upon people having to ask for one). Now, the little old lady who had spent her life helping people was suspicious of people handing out sweets as had been deceived and given bad sweets in the past. She now doesn't believe that I have any sweets and as a consequence doesn't ask or receive one. In contrast, the Nazi war criminal asks for a sweet and is promptly given one.
Is this fair? Would an omniscient God act in the same manner?
27 Feb 19
@philokalia saidThis is one of the most common and horrible cop-outs of those who call themselves "Christian".
You are saved by faith, and the works that you do are actually irrelevant.
27 Feb 19
@suzianne saidRomans1009 used to claim there is no requirement for Christians to do anything nor any requirement for them to obey any commandments. IF any good works were done and IF any commandments were obeyed, it was down to the supernatural effect of the "indwelling Holy Spirit" [if they did not occur, so be it, it was "up to God"] and such works and obedience should not be strived for by Christians on their own bat. He also believed that he was already "saved" and this could not be undone because, if it was, it "would make God a liar".
This is one of the most common and horrible cop-outs of those who call themselves "Christian".