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What with the maggot comment in the other thread, this has not been a very dignified evening for you.
What I asked you was on what grounds do you regard you as a human being to be of more value then a maggot.
You may use horse, dolphin, chimp, if maggot insults you. The issue is the same.
I derive our worth from the God. He made all creatures. He made man in His image and according to His likeness. That is the ground that separates us from the other creatures. This higher value is bestowed upon humanity by the Creator the eternal ground of value.
Maggots, chimps, whales, etc have their place. And we like them are creatures. But in making humanity God got more involved to make us in His own image and according to His own likeness.
From this we derive our higher dignity.
As an atheist then, where do you derive any sense of higher dignity over an ape, or mouse, or maggot, or orangutan?
@sonship saidIf you want to ask such insulting questions, direct them at somebody else.
@Ghost-of-a-DukeWhat with the maggot comment in the other thread, this has not been a very dignified evening for you.
What I asked you was on what grounds do you regard you as a human being to be of more value then a maggot.
You may use horse, dolphin, chimp, if maggot insults you. The issue is the same.
I derive our worth from the God. He ...[text shortened]... hen, where do you derive any sense of higher dignity over an ape, or mouse, or maggot, or orangutan?
@sonship saidDo you think it would have made sense if Ghost of a Duke's parents were vengeful and wrathful and threatened to torture him? I'm trying to see what you think your analogy means but it just sounds a little bit demented and far-fetched.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
That is why I mentioned your own children (which you don't have). Then think on your father and mother. Probably if they truly loved you they sometimes had to discipline you.
No?
@sonship saidFull creep mode, sonship. Lemonjello has made a fool of you time and time again on this cretinous debating gambit of yours. Have you forgotten? Your religious zealotry has shorn you of much of your decency and ability to process dissent and disagreement.
@Ghost-of-a-DukeWhat with the maggot comment in the other thread, this has not been a very dignified evening for you.
What I asked you was on what grounds do you regard you as a human being to be of more value then a maggot.
You may use horse, dolphin, chimp, if maggot insults you. The issue is the same.
I derive our worth from the God. He ...[text shortened]... hen, where do you derive any sense of higher dignity over an ape, or mouse, or maggot, or orangutan?
No, you attempted to use children (you were unaware I didn't have) to make a creepy attack.
There is nothing Christ loving in that. Nothing at all.
That's interesting. I find you creepy in not seeing that sometimes greater parental wisdom calls for discipline upon wayward less mature life.
Now, the instances of the bears and the young mob gang taunting Elisha may not be easy to like. It seems to have some symbolic significance in the number 42. Some expositors say the symbolism has to do with 42 generations.
Forty is the number of trial. (ie. rain forty days, wandering in the wilderness forty years).
Forty two some scholars say is the number of rest after trial.
Anyway, I don't claim every instance of God's judging in the OT is easy for me to explain. I trust God.
Now, you did not design your digestive system nor your respiratory system. You did no self design your circulatory system or your reproductive system. You did not create your brain. Nor do you know the billions of things which happen within your body to keep you healthy and alive. Not one cell did you have the wisdom to create. Not one nanosecond of activity in your nervous system do you have thorough knowledge of what needs to take place.
Transfer now this superior knowledge of God to the moral universe. I think it goes without saying that SOMETIMES we may not understand exactly why God dealt with someone they way He did.
The ripple effects of their doings on the fabric of time is known by God. And TRUST that though sometimes it appears too harsh to me, (like the bears and the young men taunting the prophet) God knew what needed to happen.
I don't claim each and every judgment in the OT is easy for me to explain or even like. I trust God in being God. You do what you need to do. I'm running with trusting the Creator and His righteous Being.
@sonship saidClearly, I am more polite without God.
@Ghost-of-a-DukeIf you want to ask such insulting questions, direct them at somebody else.
Oh, I thought you were perhaps stronger without God.
Sorry.
Instead of maggot, try dolphin or chimpanzee. Better?
@ghost-of-a-duke saidAgain what is morality the framework for judgment, justification, good, evil? Every death from old age on is a tragedy in my opinion, accidents caused some to die! Electric shocks can wipe out people, death period is a tragedy and it should not be so in my opinion and is!
Let's examine more closely what I wrote Kelly. - 'If, as individuals, we both read a factual story in a newspaper about bears being sent to kill children, we would both be rightly appalled. We would both say that such an occurrence could NEVER be justified.' - Here I am saying Kelly, outside of religion, you and I (as moral human beings) would be united in condemning ...[text shortened]... werful deity can do whatever he wants. That doesn't make him righteous. That renders Him tyrannical.
That is not a moral framework, it is a result or consequence for evil in every instance. I don’t care if it’s bears or old age!
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Clearly, I am more polite without God.
You're beating a dead horse you know. There is nothing about the philosophical question - What makes you of more value or worth then a maggot? that is impolite in this Forum on deep questions of meaning.
Maybe your self is too big and getting in the way of a perfectly valid philosophical question.
I am surprised you got so offended. I was expecting you to say Evolution caused you to arrived at the higher level of life.
There was nothing impolite about the question. Your thin skin over reacted.
@kellyjay saidSorry Kelly, that really doesn't address the questions put to you.
Again what is morality the framework for judgment, justification, good, evil? Every death from old age on is a tragedy in my opinion, accidents caused some to die! Electric shocks can wipe out people, death period is a tragedy and it should not be so in my opinion and is!
That is not a moral framework, it is a result or consequence for evil in every instance. I don’t care if it’s bears or old age!
@sonship saidChristians like you are so fanatical you seemingly cannot process or comprehend diversity of belief. You may think you are more able to humanize other people by looking through your prism, but in fact you are seeking to dehumanize others. Your God figure doesn't seem to make you strong. It seems to make you weak and often rather poisonous.
Ghost,
In case you misunderstand, Christians like me believe that you are of more worth then a maggot or dolphin or whale or tadpole.
@ghost-of-a-duke said@ghost-of-a-duke said
I'm perfectly happy with it.
Give it another read.
"A stable and moral person will entertain, if a Christian, the horrors of the OT and assimilate into their moral framework, allowing their morality to be degraded by a fictional deity."
"A stable and moral person will entertain,.." horrors? But only "if" they're a Christian?
"Horrors of the OT"? Compared to what?
"Assimilate into their moral framework" horrors?
Christians have a "degraded" morality because they believe in a "fictional deity"?
What you're saying is that Christians are delusional.
I recall a debate where you took great offense at being called delusional for being an atheist. A double standard?
It's logical to assume that if one of us is right and the other wrong about the existence of a 3-O creator, then one of us is indeed delusional and unable to correctly assimilate into reality a moral framework consistent with what a truly stable and moral person is.
Just sayin'.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYes it does your moral framework is what you are applying, and you are doing so to show me that your explanation fits. I am talking about it with all the text in play you are selecting a text and applying your judgment to it out of context of the whole.
Sorry Kelly, that really doesn't address the questions put to you.
@secondson saidYou appear to be injecting the word 'delusional' so as to have something to point at and declare 'double standard!'
@ghost-of-a-duke said
"A stable and moral person will entertain, if a Christian, the horrors of the OT and assimilate into their moral framework, allowing their morality to be degraded by a fictional deity."
"A stable and moral person will entertain,.." horrors? But only "if" they're a Christian?
"Horrors of the OT"? Compared to what?
"Assimilate into thei ...[text shortened]... o reality a moral framework consistent with what a truly stable and moral person is.
Just sayin'.
My post had nothing to do with a delusional mindset. I clearly profited that a moral person (by everyday standards) would have to compromise their moral position in order to accommodate such OT atrocities as the great flood, plagues of Egypt, killer bears sent by God etc etc.
And yes, it was joseph who accused atheists of being delusional. I thought that was before your time?