Taliban sinks to new low, cruelty on new level.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Saying that honour-killing must be an Islamic doctrine because it occurs in (some) Muslim countries is like saying that alcohol and porn are fundamental Christian tenets because they are found all over Christian countries. The sad thing is that some Muslims do think the same way.

Well put. It's also sad that something so obvious needs to be repeated so often.

Originally posted by Palynka
Well put. It's also sad that something so obvious needs to be repeated so often.

Sadder still are people with good brains pretending to be stupid. But if you scratch their skin, you'll often uncover a festering political agenda.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
If it's not sanctioned by the Koran, then it's not an Islamic practice, whether or not the people doing it think they are being good Muslims or not. In fact, honour killing predates Islam; nor is it confined to Muslims.

Saying that honour-killing must be an Islamic doctrine because it occurs in (some) Muslim countries is like saying that alcohol an ...[text shortened]... connection between those two things ...

So you've lived in Pakistan or somewhere like it?

no, this is quite erroneous, because those who practice things which are contrary to the tenets of which ever religious practice the adhere to are denying the very source of their belief, its termed hypocrisy, so taking for example your analogy with regard to pornography and alcohol, a person who abuses alcohol or views pornography is disregarding biblical principles and the teachings of Christ, he is not therefore a Christian, but something else, i have been quite consistent in stating this to you and others, the same would apply to those who kill their sisters for the so called honour of their family, if the Koran forbids this, then they are not Muslims but hypocrites, if it does not forbid this then they are Muslims and simply adhering to there faith.

i never stated that it was an Islamic doctrine, i merely stated that it happens, often. there are many cases in the UK of this type of thing, i cannot think of one instance in which a non Muslim was involved in an honour killing, can you explain that?

actually i am not islamophobiac just cannot stomach hypocrisy in Muslims or Christians or for anyone else actually, for no doubt there are many sincere and kind Muslims and education is not always a factor, for many of the most happy and kind individuals i have met have been the most impoverished and simple.

if you are going to call me an idiot then i have nothing further to say to you, if you do not like what i write then do not read it, its very simple solution, i wont have to listen to your insults and you wont have to listen to my thoughts.

yes my wife is a pakistani national and i used to live there.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i cannot think of one instance in which a non Muslim was involved in an honour killing, can you explain that?

I can explain that. You cannot think of any instance because you either have a bad memory or are uninformed.

Example: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jun/23/israel

Originally posted by Palynka
I can explain that. It's because you either have a bad memory or are uninformed.

yawn, can you do no better than that, perhaps it was a well intended try at humour, never the less its worthy of nothing but dismissal, sorry, perhaps you can site some evidence, you know, perhaps a handful of individuals who are from a non Islamic background and who have engaged in honour killings in the uk.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yawn, can you do no better than that, perhaps it was a well intended try at humour, never the less its worthy of nothing but dismissal, sorry, perhaps you can site some evidence, you know, perhaps a handful of individuals who are from a non Islamic background and who have engaged in honour killings in the uk.

See above.

Originally posted by Palynka
See above.

in the uk and dont get wide!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

i never stated that it was an Islamic doctrine, i merely stated that it happens, often. there are many cases in the UK of this type of thing, i cannot think of one instance in which a non Muslim was involved in an honour killing, can you explain that?



actually i am not islamophobiac just cannot stomach hypocrisy in Muslims or Christians or ...[text shortened]... simple solution, i wont have to listen to your insults and you wont have to listen to thoughts.

Yes: you're ignorant of honour killings that don't involve Muslims but adherents of other religions -- from Hindus to Yeziris. (There is a YouTube video that supposedly shows a Muslim honour killing but that actually shows Yeziris killing a Yeziri girl for dishonouring the community with a Muslim boy: that should tell you all you need to know about honour killing). Why you're ignorant of these things, I can't say. Maybe you haven't done much research.

I'm not calling you an idiot at all -- just asking why you answer a question that makes sense with one that doesn't.

If you don't have a strong stomach for hypocrisy, I suggest you join a monastery at once. Even then ...

Of course the fact that many Muslims are hypocrites is no reason to call Islam a 'sick religion'. So perhaps you'll stop using those hateful words.

You still haven't answered my questions, by the way. I'll let the one about your wife drop; but you hinted that you've lived in a Muslim country -- was it Pakistan? What was your experience there like?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
in the uk and dont get wide!

Pathetic.

Our assertion is that honour killings are more cultural-specific than religious-specific. Honour killings in the UK by people with no ties to such cultures is not something we would expect. Honour killings by non-Muslims in such cultures is something we would expect.

The existence of honour killings by Christian Palestinians and the absence of honour killings by British Christians confirms our vision, but contradicts yours.

Originally posted by Palynka
See above.

all you have established is that it is a cultural phenomena, i already knew this, because as the article stated, they people involved were Christians religiously, the culture Islamic, did the lady in question not state that the culture was Islamic, therefore we must conclude from your own evidence that it is something endemic to Islamic culture!

Originally posted by Palynka
Pathetic.

Our assertion is that honour killings are more cultural-specific than religious-specific. Honour killings in the UK by people with no ties to such cultures is not something we would expect. Honour killings by non-Muslims in such cultures is something we would expect.

The existence of honour killings by Christian Palestinians and the absence of honour killings by British Christians confirms our vision, but contradicts yours.

you want to watch those adjectives of yours, who knows some day they may even reflect reality!

Originally posted by Palynka
Pathetic.

Our assertion is that honour killings are more cultural-specific than religious-specific. Honour killings in the UK by people with no ties to such cultures is not something we would expect. Honour killings by non-Muslims in such cultures is something we would expect.

The existence of honour killings by Christian Palestinians and the absence of honour killings by British Christians confirms our vision, but contradicts yours.

'no ties to culture', then explain why the majority are committed by those who are brought up with an Islamic background, 'no ties', man you are living in the past or seriously delusional, so where is the evidence, make with the readies for in each and every assertion you make, you are proving quite clearly that this is an Islamic cultural phenomena, and i thank you for it!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
all you have established is that it is a cultural phenomena, i already knew this, because as the article stated, they people involved were Christians religiously, the culture Islamic, did the lady in question not state that the culture was Islamic, therefore we must conclude from your own evidence that it is something endemic to Islamic culture!

Again, wrong. Religion is certainly a part of culture, but culture cannot be reduced to religion. That something is culture-specific does not imply that it is religion-specific. This is why the evidence that I mention above differentiates between your position (by undermining it) and mine (by reinforcing it). An honour killing in the UK by someone with a, say, Pakistani background doesn't differentiate between our opinions and therefore is not useful as evidence.

This is basic stuff, robbie.

Originally posted by Palynka
Again, wrong. Religion is certainly a part of culture, but culture cannot be reduced to religion. That something is culture-specific does not imply that it is religion-specific.

This is basic stuff, robbie.

look dude, never mind that, make with the readies and use plain language so that the thoughts are not lost in terminology and pretense of knowledge.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
in the uk and dont get wide!

Why does it have to be in the UK?

Anyway, here's a story about a British Sikh granny killing her daughter-in-law to defend the family honour: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Honour_killing_by_UK_Sikh_family/articleshow/2384202.cms

Granted, the murder was carried out while the family was on holiday in India -- but that's beside the point, I'm sure you'll agree.

And here's one from Vancouver:
http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2003/10/05/mom_gave_long_distance_order_for_honor_killing_police_say/