Taliban sinks to new low, cruelty on new level.

Originally posted by Ullr
I guess some people just need something to hate and in this day an age hating Americans is fashionable.

However, I have to admit I find it really strange that someone could possibly turn a thread about sad and horrific atrocities committed against schoolgirls by Afghanistan men into an expression of hatred against American men. How does someone's brain make that connection?

One makes these connections because in his hatred he looses his ability to discriminate, Ullr

Originally posted by black beetle
Hey sonny dude,

war is war and atrocities are atrocities and us people we 're evil for a billion trillion reasons -men and women, Christians and Atheists and Muslims alike. When we get angry or sentimental and drive loco it's impossible to have a decent conversation -we have to wait; twhitehead, normally a quite rational person, is full of hatred rig ...[text shortened]... ne can blaim her/ him, and time will tell. I am sure you understand.

Best regards my friend

I think you might have probably misread twhitehead's intentions (or I have yours!). He was not attacking American men, he was attempting to show how sonhouse's attacks on Islam and Christianity were misplaced.

I think twhitehead has a valid point in that using marginal atrocities to attack ideals is flawed. For example, atrocities have been committed in the name of democracy. Is the concept of democracy itself flawed or inherently violent? Of course not.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Actually, Islam itself IS to blame, they are following Shiria law, which they no doubt pick and choose but Islam came out of the starting gate bent on war, subjugation by force in the 700's and have not stopped since, take a look at what is happening in Africa where whole villages are destroyed because they refuse to convert to Islam. Yesiree, Islam, the re ...[text shortened]... the circumstances, like rape. Yesiree, christianity, the religion of peace. The ORIGINAL scam.

No, what I'm saying is that you're narrowly listening to a claim about religions that you likely know little to nothing about. Whatever fits your predetermined bias is what you go with. That's fine, but all to many opinions are pawned off as 'fact' in this manner.

Originally posted by Palynka
I think you might have probably misread twhitehead's intentions (or I have yours!). He was not attacking American men, he was attempting to show how sonhouse's attacks on Islam and Christianity were misplaced.

I think twhitehead has a valid point in that using marginal atrocities to attack ideals is flawed. For example, atrocities have been committed in t ...[text shortened]... of democracy. Is the concept of democracy itself flawed or inherently violent? Of course not.

In such a case I would agree with you, Pal; maybe I misunderstood twhitehead.

Originally posted by black beetle
In such a case I would agree with you, Pal; maybe I misunderstood twhitehead.

Holy S$#@t, Pal, right!

twhitehead, I bow! Thank you for the lesson!

Originally posted by Palynka
I think you might have probably misread twhitehead's intentions (or I have yours!). He was not attacking American men, he was attempting to show how sonhouse's attacks on Islam and Christianity were misplaced.

I think twhitehead has a valid point in that using marginal atrocities to attack ideals is flawed. For example, atrocities have been committed in t ...[text shortened]... of democracy. Is the concept of democracy itself flawed or inherently violent? Of course not.

Ah, well now I feel rather stupid.

Assuming you're correct, twitehead was demonstrating absurdity by being absurd and I fell for it.

Oh well, I guess I will back away from the keyboard for a while.

Originally posted by Ullr
Ah, well now I feel rather stupid.

Assuming you're correct, twitehead was demonstrating absurdity by being absurd and I fell for it.

Oh well, I guess I will back away from the keyboard for a while.

I guess I am the only one thinking it might be wrong to start a religion with war which both of those deadly religions did. It's going on right now but I guess the average muslim in the street or nice church goer do not see anything wrong when hundreds of thousands of people get killed, I am supposed to just say, those are just fringe bad boys and there is nothing fundamentally wrong with both religions? Because they sometimes do good, feed the poor, succor the sick, on the dark underbelly of death they both deal out, that all makes it ok.
There is no god directing all of this, there is only filthy depraved men, and just about 100 % men doing it all with one purpose: Subjugate. Kill, rape, pillage, but of course the nicey nice guy on the street makes it all ok.
Also, and I expect people closely involved to just glide over this statement:
I have no hatred for the man/woman in the street who is just one of the billions duped by their respective religions. My absolute and unswerving hatred is aimed directly at those miscreants who are forcing conversions, both christians and muslims are guilty of that, and the wars they engender in their unbridled ambitions to take over the entire planet and force the conversion of indiginous villagers who want nothing to do with either religion. You saw it in South America with the Spanish, you see it right now in Africa. There is no god directing this (I can't even come up with a proper word to describe them) activity, just heartless and cruel men out to conquer.
My deepest wish would be to have been there where those innocent girls were attacked with acid for daring to do what men and women anywhere else does, go to school, for that crime they are now scarred and blind. My fervent wish would be for me to have been there knowing those animals were going to come by with the acid filled squirt guns and I am there with about a 5 foot long sword to lop off their heads and feed their remains to jackels.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I guess I am the only one thinking it might be wrong to start a religion with war which both of those deadly religions did. It's going on right now but I guess the average muslim in the street or nice church goer do not see anything wrong when hundreds of thousands of people get killed, I am supposed to just say, those are just fringe bad boys and there is ...[text shortened]... there with about a 5 foot long sword to lop off their heads and feed their remains to jackels.

Of course sonhouse pal there is not "God" directing all this jazz. And surely the concept of the religion is a perfect tool for manipulation of the people, just like many other concepts. However generalisations are dangerous and religionism is pathetic, and everybody can become a religionist, even an atheist I reckon.

But hatred is futile -I only hate whenever I recognise myself in the eyes of the one I hate. Always there 's an obvious way out although it 's hard to be seen. When there 's not a way out, then we have to create one on our own. It seems to me that the quality required for such a task is not hatred.

Originally posted by sonhouse
This is the most despicable act of religious cruelty I have ever come across. And people wonder why I hate religions, religions of death like Islam and Christianity.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/11/12/afghanistan.acid.attack/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

The fact that you seek to place acts of cruelty at "religion's" door is just part of the axe you have to grind. It's a reverse form of bigotry and narrow minded. You push your hate outwards but really you hate that which is within yourself.

Do you really really think that if religion had never existed that men would never be cruel to each other? If you do you are a fool. Cruelty occurs when one human being de-humanises another , you don't need religion for that to happen. Religion may be one of many catalysts but it is not the cause , cruelty arises from within the human heart and if you had done any soul searching you would know that.

I'm frankly bored of your recent onslaughts against "religion" and it's time someone pointed out how pathetic it's getting. What's next ? The credit crunch is the Pope's fault?

You no doubt will somehow try to turn this around to say that I don't care about what happens to these girls but hopefully you will see that in your own way you are being just as narrow minded , simplistic and bigoted against religion as those you despise.

This is basically unsophisticated simplistic and unenlightening nonesense. Go grind your axe in private and while you are at it have someone see to that huge chip on your shoulder.

Originally posted by sonhouse
This is the most despicable act of religious cruelty I have ever come across. And people wonder why I hate religions, religions of death like Islam and Christianity.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/11/12/afghanistan.acid.attack/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

religions of death like Islam and Christianity.

Give a reference to any Islamic doctrine that support this act, other wise please don't say statement like this. This is very stupid.

Originally posted by Badwater
Cruelty does not limit itself to the radical elements within Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. etc. It is independent of religion. Violence exists in the absence of religions. The perpetrators of the violent act should be held accountable for a gross injustice, but Islam itself is not at fault. They may claim to be doing it in the name of Islam b ...[text shortened]... of Christianity are certainly not Christians. If you wish to believe that, well, that's on you.

Would you say then that all societies are equally violent/cruel?

Originally posted by sonhouse
Did you see what the Japanese soldiers did to their prisoners in WW2? or What Pol Pot did to his country men in Cambodia, or what Idi Amin did to his people? And of course we all know about Hitler. And Stalin, and on and on. Americans are amateurs compared to those dudes. I guess that doesn't count, if ONE american atrocity takes place, it counts for one Million Pol Pot kills in Cambodia. Or Armenia. They are equal in your pathetically blinded eyes.

Sonhouse, have you no appreciation of irony? Twitehead is merely parodying your perverse logic of generalisations. You observe that the perpetrators are Islamic, and then conclude that Islam, and Christianity, deserve to be hated. But these perpetrators are men, so why no disdainful mistrust of all men? Twitehead saw two Americans engaged in horrific torture, why no hate-filled condemnation of all Americans?

Originally posted by ahosyney
[b]religions of death like Islam and Christianity.

Give a reference to any Islamic doctrine that support this act, other wise please don't say statement like this. This is very stupid.[/b]

Forget Islamic doctrine. What about Islamic culture - which is an offshoot of the religion? Has it influenced the Taliban's decision to ban the education of females?

Also are women and men treated equally in Islamic culture? Say with regard to voting, driving, owning property, martial rights, divorce, education.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Would you say then that all societies are equally violent/cruel?

I would not; equality doesn't exist in the human experience.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Forget Islamic doctrine. What about Islamic culture - which is an offshoot of the religion? Has it influenced the Taliban's decision to ban the education of females?

Also are women and men treated equally in Islamic culture? Say with regard to voting, driving, owning property, martial rights, divorce, education.

actually the taleban doctrine was a product of the Pakistan religious leaders, 'the maulvi, (like a priests or cardinal i suppose) head the madras or religious schools and are very influential in the country, politically, locally and nationally, depending on how militant the leader of the madras depends on how violent they become, anyhow this ideology was fomented in Pakistan and exported to Afghanistan.

there is no equality in Islam nor in Islamic culture, men are considered superior, make no mistake about this, being a man is considered a virtue. however, there are many beautiful aspects of eastern culture, which the Islamics also practise, for example ordinary people are far more hospitable than those in the west, far more, in fact i would go as far to say that the west has no concept of eastern hospitality, none at all. for example if a man happens to have some good fortune, he invites the whole street to his home for food and drink and enjoyment, my goodness you go to some places in the west like London and people wont even talk to you! as a foreigner and a guest i was treated as almost a V.I.P, now you compare that to how immigrants and persons from another country are treated in the west, yes there is horror, yes there is the poverty, the gap between rich and poor is staggering, the people who build colossal 30 bedroom houses for corrupt police officers and judges live in straw houses and bake their bread in a whole in the ground, but we should not let it blind us to the beauty, but sadly women are a commodity, in fact you go to Peshawar and for a few thousand pound you can have you're pick of many!

whether this is Islams fault or cultural i have yet to make up my mind, but i think that it Islam had its seeds sown in violence and will always be a religion of violence, no matter what people try to portray, because for a certainty, violence against women or non believers is permitted!