Originally posted by robbie carrobieMan you ok sir? My oldest bro was very much into motorcycles he was good knew how to lay a bike down and all. He had one bad wreck though and now he is afraid to ever get back on one.
yes i did, i landed on the other side of the road, on the pavement, after what seemed
like an eternity flying through the air, an ambulance came and took me to hospital. I
have had motorcycle crashes before, many, mostly on dirt tracks though, but concrete
is very unforgiving!
Manny
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Originally posted by menace71yes dude I am fine, although to be honest we never escape these things unscathed,
Man you ok sir? My oldest bro was very much into motorcycles he was good knew how to lay a bike down and all. He had one bad wreck though and now he is afraid to ever get back on one.
Manny
but I am alive which is more than can be said for some young men. A friend of our
family, in fact he was like extended family died when he was only 21 on motorcycle
, so i can fully understand your brothers reservations. I will not allow my kid to
have a motorcycle, not a road bike anyway.
Actually we are planing an electric bike, we have like this bicycle in a chopper
shape, has a big fat back tyre and extended front forks, you can get an electric
wheel (1000 watts) which can get you up to speeds of thirty seven miles an hour
which is plenty if you are on a bicycle (the legal limit in the UK for a bicycle is 15
miles per hour). Essentially you are turning your bike into a moped!
Where i live there is an old canal which was built in 1745, the Forth and Clyde canal,
stretches from Edinburgh to Glasgow, anyhow, they government turned it into a
cycle path, all the way along its banks, its actually quite beautiful, you can still see
remains of the Antoine wall built by the Romans! so we could zoom up and down
there.
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Originally posted by sonhouse...evidence that Scientology itself shows ... that there really are totally man made religions out there and my position is all the modern religions, 'modern' meaning those basically since Egyptian times, are all man made.
Yes, I agree, there ARE really totally man-made religions out there (atheism being one! My contention that atheism is just another "religion" was in another thread. 🙂 )
But MY point here is that your conclusion that " ALL the modern religions" are man made, does not follow logically from that example.
How could this loving god of yours who obviously, being omniscient and all, clearly seeing what is going on, allow such monumentally scaled atrocity to take place?
As RJH rightly pointed out, the debate about why God allows bad things to happen has been extensively dealt with in Christian literature. The argument goes that God cannot be both all-powerful and all-loving: either he cannot deal with such stuff (which make him not omnipotent) or he doesn't want to, in which case he is not all-loving.
A good book on this subject which has cleared up the matter in my mind at least is CS Lewis: The Problem of Pain. I cannot in the context of this thread deal with this subject adequately, unfortunately.
However, where you are totally correct, is that each and every person that considers himself/herself a follower of Christ must solve this issue satisfactorily for themselves. I have seen too many "believers" stumble over this issue each time a baby gets raped or another atrocity gets reported. Even after 9/11, many people asked "Where was God when this happened? How could He have allowed it?" (Aside: that from a country that banned prayer in schools and from all public life!)
Why isn't the totality of the christian faith satisfied with having something close to a billion followers?
The answer, of course, is that you share something if you have found value in it! Like when you've seen a good movie or read a good book. It's called "word-of-mouth advertising"! It's not about counting scalps, or at least it should not be!
If Christianity is that great, the deeds of the followers would by themselves show the rest of the world the validity of following Jesus
Ah, THERE'S the rub! You've hit the nail on the head. Jesus distinctly said: By their DEEDS shall you know them! He also said to test the tree by it's fruit. So your point s entirely valid.
The whole edifice of religion just gets more and more shaky the deeper you look into them.
Well, I've tried to remove some of the shakiness, if you are prepared to examine it with different eyes. My point is still that the god that you DON'T believe in, is actually a god that NOBODY should believe in!
The basic tenements of christianity are just reworked from previous religions that were around in Egyptian times
Again, this is an entire separate argument, as to the veracity of the ancient texts, and the reliability of translations. (There was a thread about this, but it was also not very satisfying.) I cannot possibly do it justice in a paragraph or two. In the popular Alpha Course (Google it!) this matter is dealt with in detail. (Note to self: maybe I should dig it out and put it in a thread?)
In peace,
CJ
Originally posted by CalJustAlthough you clearly can't give it full coverage here, does your understanding of this problem somehow involve a lack of prayer in schools and all public life as an explanation for pain? Or am I not understanding that aside correctly?
A good book on this subject which has cleared up the matter in my mind at least is CS Lewis: The Problem of Pain. I cannot in the context of this thread deal with this subject adequately, unfortunately.
.....
(Aside: that from a country that banned prayer in schools and from all public life!)
Originally posted by CalJustYet it usually is. The vast majority of people who have tried to preach to me, have displayed no interest in 'sharing a good book' and far more interest in 'winning souls for Jesus'. In other words, it rarely seems to be about them thinking it will be good for me, and more about them thinking it will benefit them in the afterlife.
It's called "word-of-mouth advertising"! It's not about counting scalps, or at least it should not be!
Originally posted by twhiteheadHi twhitehead, again,
Although you clearly can't give it full coverage here, does your understanding of this problem somehow involve a lack of prayer in schools and all public life as an explanation for pain? Or am I not understanding that aside correctly?
I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of the US cutting God out of their public life but then complaining about God not intervening - also in their public life - when it suits them.
Clearly, it is not the same people doing the "cutting" as the "complaining", so it may not actually be a good argument. Sorry!
😳
Originally posted by twhiteheadI have to agree with you on that point.
Yet it usually is. The vast majority of people who have tried to preach to me, have displayed no interest in 'sharing a good book' and far more interest in 'winning souls for Jesus'. (it is really) about them thinking it will benefit them in the afterlife.
Many people "witness" because they are under pressure (or guilt trips) to do so from their respective pastor. Not from personal convcition to share something really great.
In my own experience I find that many of the persons that "witness" shouldn't actually do so because they have nothing to "witness" about!
So on this point we agree.
Sad, but true.
Originally posted by CalJustBut even if it was the same people doing it, do you genuinely believe that evil exists because people cut God out of their public life?
Hi twhitehead, again,
I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of the US cutting God out of their public life but then complaining about God not intervening - also in their public life - when it suits them.
Clearly, it is not the same people doing the "cutting" as the "complaining", so it may not actually be a good argument. Sorry!
😳
Are there less atrocities in countries where prayer in School is standard (eg Zambia)?
Originally posted by twhiteheadThe best ones dont try to push their at all. If the message is powerful enough, then those that are curious will ask .
I do have to admit that there are many Christians who do not try to push religion down your throat and rather choose to show by example.
This is how it should be,imo. In this way the knowledge given is welcomed and appreciated rather than just put up with or just simply ignored.
Originally posted by twhiteheadNo, of course not.
But even if it was the same people doing it, do you genuinely believe that evil exists because people cut God out of their public life?
Are there less atrocities in countries where prayer in School is standard (eg Zambia)?
In my "aside" I pointed out that people can't have it both ways: want God to intervene, but only where it pleases them.
The reason why evil exists obviously lies elsewhere - in the Fall, and the fact that at this point in time, the devil is the Prince of this world. Real Christians (and all spiritually minded people) are actually underground subversives, fighting in occupied territory!
Now THERE's a new topic for you!
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Originally posted by CalJustHi back! I just wanted to say that when humans get into a debate about god, hundreds of texts can be written, tomes discussed, ethics reviewed and such but it doesn't help the case that an omniscient god could have stopped those multi-millions from being killed for political reasons.
[b] ...evidence that Scientology itself shows ... that there really are totally man made religions out there and my position is all the modern religions, 'modern' meaning those basically since Egyptian times, are all man made.
Yes, I agree, there ARE really totally man-made religions out there (atheism being one! My contention that atheism is just an self: maybe I should dig it out and put it in a thread?)
In peace,
CJ[/b]
If you go back in time way before humans, something similar has happened on a grand scale, mass extinctions. The one 65 million years ago, for instance, offed all the dinosaurs. Some say the Chicxulub asteroid in the Yucatan did them in but more research seems to indicate they were on their way out anyway and the asteroid impact was just the coup de gras.
So was this god of yours actively aiming asteroids to make way for mammals which were around then but little shrew like creatures? Was that a case of intelligent intervention?
So now we have millions of people being killed for political reasons. Could your god have had a culpable hand in that?
It seems to me to be saying this god would not stop a mass extinction of humanity either. In other words, a non-interacting god.
If this god is non interacting, why would we be trying to emulate it?
Originally posted by sonhouseIt is obviously the flood of Noah's day caused the extinction of the
Hi back! I just wanted to say that when humans get into a debate about god, hundreds of texts can be written, tomes discussed, ethics reviewed and such but it doesn't help the case that an omniscient god could have stopped those multi-millions from being killed for political reasons.
If you go back in time way before humans, something similar has happen ...[text shortened]... non-interacting god.
If this god is non interacting, why would we be trying to emulate it?
animals like so called, dinosaurs and some ancient civilizations. Just
forget these dates that say this or that took place so many millions or
billions of years ago and you want have a problem understanding it.
Originally posted by RJHindsthe fossil evidence does not support this crazy theory.
It is obviously the flood of Noah's day caused the extinction of the
animals like so called, dinosaurs and some ancient civilizations. Just
forget these dates that say this or that took place so many millions or
billions of years ago and you want have a problem understanding it.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNice 🙂 I used to race bicycles of course that was about 60lbs ago but bicycles are actually very cool. We have a bike path here which stretches about 30 miles along the American river and it is very beautiful also. I've seen deer and rattle snakes and you name it birds of all kinds. Occasionally a Cougar but fish & game usually gets after them quickly. 37 miles an hour is fast for a bicycle no doubt.
yes dude I am fine, although to be honest we never escape these things unscathed,
but I am alive which is more than can be said for some young men. A friend of our
family, in fact he was like extended family died when he was only 21 on motorcycle
, so i can fully understand your brothers reservations. I will not allow my kid to
have a motorc ...[text shortened]... ll see
remains of the Antoine wall built by the Romans! so we could zoom up and down
there.
Manny