The Garden of Eden

Originally posted by HandyAndy
Come on, folks, instead of quibbling over tree roots and microbes, here's a better question:

If mankind, here in the 21st century, were given another chance to choose between immortality in
a carefree world, or knowledge accompanied by pain and suffering, which option would we select?

I say the latter.. in a heartbeat. Long live Original Sin!

I'm tempted by the carefree world, although it depends am I allowed mathematical problems and is sex and are children ruled out? If so I'll put up with mortality and suffering.

I'm left wondering what divegeester means by the "Revelation of Christ" though?

Originally posted by DeepThought
I'm tempted by the carefree world, although it depends am I allowed mathematical problems and is sex and are children ruled out? If so I'll put up with mortality and suffering.

I'm left wondering what divegeester means by the "Revelation of Christ" though?

He means the Book of Revelation.

In some Bibles, such as the King James, the book is called "The Revelation of Jesus Christ", while others, such as the New American Bible call it "The Revelation to John".

Originally posted by Suzianne
He means the Book of Revelation.

In some Bibles, such as the King James, the book is called "The Revelation of Jesus Christ", while others, such as the New American Bible call it "The Revelation to John".

Ah, I did wonder I'd only known it as "the Revelation of St. John of Patmos" or simply "Revelation". I'll reread it to see what it says about the Tree of Life.

Originally posted by HandyAndy
If mankind, here in the 21st century, were given another chance to choose between immortality in a carefree world, or knowledge accompanied by pain and suffering, which option would we select?

Personally, I think immortality would render life rather meaningless.

Originally posted by FMF
Personally, I think immortality would render life rather meaningless.

Yes. That apple was a godsend.

Originally posted by HandyAndy
Yes. That apple was a godsend.

Well there's a piece of theological dynamite.

Originally posted by divegeester
I have accused you of being a bare faced liar and stated my reasons why; are you able to refute my claim?

I've said I don't know if you are a Christian or not, and I have given reasons for why I don't know. So where is the lie? How is my not knowing if you are a Christian or not a lie... are you claiming I do know?

I gave an answer to your question about the tree of knowledge of good and evil on pg 5, and gave you an answer to your question about the tree of life on pg 6. You ignored those answers as well as other answers to questions you've posed here. I started out with you in this thread in good faith, but all I've seen you do here is argue with Christians in the same way I've seen countless other arguments waged against Christians and what they believe.

So instead of pretending to engage other Christians in honest dialogue maybe it would be better if you simply stated what you believe about scripture, and what it means to you. You don't need to qualify everything you believe by saying you are a Christian... if you are a Christian then it will evident. And if you aren't, that will be evident as well.

Originally posted by lemon lime
You don't need to qualify everything you believe by saying you are a Christian... if you are, then it will evident. And if you aren't that will be evident as well.

Evident to whom?

You as Grand Arbiter?

You would have been great at the Salem Witch Trials or The Spanish Inquisition.

1 Corinthians 13:11 King James Version (KJV)

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Originally posted by DeepThought
Ah, I did wonder I'd only known it as "the Revelation of St. John of Patmos" or simply "Revelation". I'll reread it to see what it says about the Tree of Life.

NKJ and the opening text of it refer to the Revelation of Jesus Christ. I use this because I feel much of the book is about the future Christ revealed in symbolism including as him being the Tree of Life. You will find reference to the ToL as bridging both sides of a river and having healing leaves which are for the nations. This symbolism is for me very interesting (although I cannot claim to know what it means exactly), but for this thread I posted several times the text from The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ to demonstrate that the Tree of Life is sybolic of Christ and is therefore NOT a real tree with roots in the soli in the Garden of Eden. The 1500 posts of debate indicate the strong feelling to the contrary.

As an objective observer, what would you say is meant in Genesis and Revelation: real tree or symbol?

Originally posted by lemon lime
I've said I don't know if you are a Christian or not, and I have given reasons for why I don't know. So where is the lie? How is my not knowing if you are a Christian or not a lie... are you claiming I do know?

I gave an answer to your question about the tree of knowledge of good and evil on pg 5, and gave you an answer to your question a ...[text shortened]... .. if you are a Christian then it will evident. And if you aren't, that will be evident as well.

Your lie is that you pretended to FMF that your comment about me "undermining the faith of other Christians" was not actually about me when clearly it was. I repeatedly challenged you on this and you ignored every post I made. You are a liar lemon lime, you have been called out in accusing me of something you cannot substantiate and subsequently caught lying about it. You also were suggesting I was not a Christian because of this claim and then went back on that too. You owe me either an apology or some proof of your claim.

Furthermore, you have been caught lying in the General Forum also, in the "Bring it On" thread. I've called you a liar because you are and you are a coward because you lack the balls to say what you think to me and the balls to apologise if you are wrong.

Any amount of deflection is not going to get you out of this.

Originally posted by divegeester
You are a liar lemon lime [...]

Furthermore, you have been caught lying in the General Forum also, in the "Bring it On" thread. I've called you a liar because you are and you are a coward because you lack the balls to say what you think to me and the balls to apologise if you are wrong.

Any amount of deflection is not going to get you out of this.

Page 6 and then page 10 onwards on Thread 160396.

Proper Knob: If you had read the threads, why did you answer - 'nope' - when asked if you had?

lemon lime: As I said, I wasn't actually answering his question. I gave an answer to another question... a question he didn't ask.

Proper Knob: So you lied?

lemon lime: No, I just led him to believe what he wanted to believe... he didn't have to follow.

and so on...

Bang to rights! 😀

Originally posted by lemon lime
II started out with you in this thread in good faith, but all I've seen you do here is argue with Christians in the same way I've seen countless other arguments waged against Christians and what they believe.

Christians simply do not agree with each other on all points of doctrine, you must have noticed this. It's a hallmark of the Christians in this community too.

You, for example, do not accept the Word of God as laid out in the Bible as evidence to support Christian doctrine and the Christian way of life, and yet the fact that 99% of Christians would probably think that such a stance is preposterous ~ especially coming from a self-described Christian ~ would give fairly 'probable cause' to at least query the basis of your self-description.

Nevertheless, until you started lying ~ by denying that you had suggested that divegeester was not a Christian [when you clearly had] ~ just about every single Christian and non-believer alike here probably accepted your description of yourself as a Christian in good faith.

But now you yourself even fall short of your own definition of a not-a-Christian: "Attacking (and attempting to discredit) Christians and key aspects of Biblical teaching doesn't make you a Christian. So if you didn't tell anyone you were a Christian, how would they know?" You could simply turn this little self-righteous blurt upon yourself and see if it fits.

Originally posted by FMF
Christians simply do not agree with each other on all points of doctrine, you must have noticed this. It's a hallmark of the Christians in this community too.

You, for example, do not accept the Word of God as laid out in the Bible as evidence to support Christian doctrine and the Christian way of life, and yet the fact that 99% of Christians would probably ...[text shortened]... know?" You could simply turn this little self-righteous blurt upon yourself and see if it fits.

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