the insanity of faith

Originally posted by @apathist
Your first question is very hypocritical. It is your camp that is controlling, I merely resist.

Your second question, oh yes. We should take care of our home, don't you think?

How am I controlling if I don't care?

Controlling is bot a camp thing, it is an individual thing. You are petsonally controlli g. You desire to control others ro make the wirld better in your own eyes.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
So you are saying the Biblical account of creation and 'evolution' are mutually exclusive?

Is see no evidence that contradicts the Biblical account. If you are aware of any feel free to present it.

We evolved as a species. We did not start with 2 human beings in a garden. Of course the biblical account of the creation of man and woman is incompatible with the well evidenced theory of evolution.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
We evolved as a species. We did not start with 2 human beings in a garden. Of course the biblical account of the creation of man and woman is incompatible with the well evidenced theory of evolution.

The creation story requires evolution with the exception of all life comes from a common life form, being the beginning of life. Life changing after the flood would have changed as it settled into niches. So I think you suggesting evolution and creationism are not compatible is not valid.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
We evolved as a species. We did not start with 2 human beings in a garden. Of course the biblical account of the creation of man and woman is incompatible with the well evidenced theory of evolution.

Give my any piece of evidence that you think proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you and I did not come from one man and one woman.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Give my any piece of evidence that you think proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you and I did not come from one man and one woman.

Oh the humanity.

Originally posted by @apathist
Says you. You are entitled to your faith, whodey. Do not pretend your faith is rational.

Is love rational?

Originally posted by @odbod
A definition of love is highly problematic to say the least.That said,which do you consider to be the most valuable,love given because of faith in another person or god,or love given without any expectation?

Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment was. He said to love your neighbor as yourself and to love the Lord your God will all your heart.

Then someone asked, "Who is my neighbor?"

Jesus answered with a parable of the Good Samaritan. In the parable a man lie dying on the side of the road out cold. People who pass by are those you would assume would want to help the man such as a priest and other people of high social ranking. However, they just ignore him. Then a Samaritan passed by, which is noteworthy because they were natural enemies of those who lived in Judea. However, he inexplicably stops anyway to help the man and takes him to an inn and pays someone to nurse him back to health.

The story was powerful because it drove home the idea that love has nothing really to do with emotion. Here is a stranger that should have hated the man that lay dying, but he took compassion on him any way. No words were exchanged so there was no possibility of even liking him in anyway.

This type of love is called agape in Greek. It is based on the presumption that we are all made in the image of God and should be treated with dignity and respect, even if they hate us or if we don't even like them.

From other points of view, such as an atheist, we are not made in the image of God. Instead, we are nothing more than glorified animals. This is problematic because what do we do to animals? We keep them as pets, hunt them, use them as beasts of burden, or kill and eat them. This type of world view in my estimation leads to mistreatment of other human beings due to not revering man because he is made in the image of God.

As for a definition of love, Paul does a decent job in 1 Corinthians 13.

1 Corinthians 13New International Version (NIV)

13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

apathist: Says you. You are entitled to your faith, whodey. Do not pretend your faith is rational.

Originally posted by @whodey
Is love rational?

Actually, I think "love" - in key respects - is similar to "faith" and belief in supernatural things. I never weighed up any evidence and 'decided' to love my spouse, or, through some rational process, 'chose' to love the children we produced.

I am not able to 'decide' to not love my spouse. I can't weigh evidence, go through some rational decision process, and then 'choose' to stop loving my children.

Can there come a day when someone realizes they don't love their partner anymore? Yes. Is it possible for parents to realize they have stopped loving their children? Yes.

I think the same aspects of the human condition apply to "faith" and belief in supernatural things

Originally posted by @fmf
Actually, I think "love" - in key respects - is similar to "faith" and belief in supernatural things. I never weighed up any evidence and 'decided' to love my spouse, or, through some rational process, 'chose' to love the children we produced.

I am not able to 'decide' to not love my spouse. I can't weigh evidence, go through some rational decision process ...[text shortened]... think the same aspects of the human condition apply to "faith" and belief in supernatural things

You did not weigh any evidence to love your spouse?

There was no evidence that they loved you? There was no evidence that you could trust them? There was no evidence that they would be a good spouse?

Really?

As for loving them, it is a natural thing to love those who love you. However, it is a supernatural thing to love those who hate you and want you dead. In that case, love becomes solely a choice.

I don't think Jesus meant the kind of love you have for your spouse.

Love means many things to many people and very few define it as the NT describes it.

Originally posted by @whodey
You did not weigh any evidence to love your spouse?

There was no evidence that they loved you? There was no evidence that you could trust them? There was no evidence that they would be a good spouse?

Really?

I wasn't talking about the decision to get married. It seems you did not understand my post at all if you think that's what I was talking about.

Originally posted by @whodey
As for loving them [children?], it is a natural thing to love those who love you.

It would seem "it is a natural thing" is a kind of synonym for what I was talking about when I discussed deciding, choosing and a rational decision process.

Originally posted by @whodey
Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment was. He said to love your neighbor as yourself and to love the Lord your God will all your heart.

Then someone asked, "Who is my neighbor?"

Jesus answered with a parable of the Good Samaritan. In the parable a man lie dying on the side of the road out cold. People who pass by are those you would assume w ...[text shortened]... nown.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

So love is more than just a feeling? Since love is kind, it is an act, since love is patient, it is
not self-seeking, not easily angered, doesn't keep a record of wrong, It looks out for the
one it loves and protects, trust, and hopes and perseveres. Love is acting in the best
interest of the one it cares about, there is nothing about feelings like it is there!? It is all
about doing and hoping for the best, getting past wrongs, helping when danger is there.

Fleeting moments of emotions, are great, but so shallow, and they can be directed
towards more than one person. The scary thing about feelings being directed towards
another person, the one having the feelings if they are not actually in love, may treat
those feelings as if they were something real important like a compass directing them
towards another, thus betraying someone else. So loving one's spouse means regardless
of feelings, you will be faithful, regardless of what is going on good or bad, you are there
for support and whatever else is needed, for as long as it takes, because that is love.

Originally posted by @whodey
However, it is a supernatural thing to love those who hate you and want you dead. In that case, love becomes solely a choice.

I don't think any Christians choose to "love those who hate [them] and want [them] dead". I think it is merely a ladle full of dogmatic, holier-than-thou duckspeak on their part when they claim they do. They don't "choose" to do it. Some people might genuinely be filled with a "faith" or "love" like idealism with regards to enemies which is rooted deeply in their psychology, but the notion that they do it by "choice" I think is posturing nonsense.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
We evolved as a species. We did not start with 2 human beings in a garden. Of course the biblical account of the creation of man and woman is incompatible with the well evidenced theory of evolution.

Well evidenced as in things we can observe or well evidenced as in we put in a lot of guess work?