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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    11 Jul '18 04:49 / 1 edit
    Is man basically good or basically evil?

    Ecclesiastes 7:29 - “See, this alone I found, that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.”
    Romans 5:7-8 - For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die—but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
    Romans 5:12,19 - sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned… by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners

    All men? Are there any exceptions?

    Psalm 143:2 - Enter not into judgment with your servant, for no one living is righteous before you.
    Romans 11:32 - For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. (c.f. Galatians 3:22)
    Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
    2 Chronicles 6:36 - “there is no one who does not sin”
    Isaiah 53:6 - All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way
    Micah 7:2-4 - The godly has perished from the earth, and there is no one upright among mankind; they all lie in wait for blood, and each hunts the other with a net. Their hands are on what is evil, to do it well; the prince and the judge ask for a bribe, and the great man utters the evil desire of his soul; thus they weave it together. The best of them is like a brier, the most upright of them a thorn hedge.
    Romans 3:9-12 - What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” (c.f. Psalm 14:1-3, 53:1-3)
    1 John 1:8,10 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we say we have not sinned, we make [God] a liar, and his word is not in us.
    Mark 10:18/Luke 18:19 - And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.”

    Are people good deep down?

    Mark 7:21-23 - “For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.” (c.f. Matthew 15:19)
    Psalm 5:9 - For there is no truth in their mouth; their inmost self is destruction; their throat is an open grave; they flatter with their tongue.
  2. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    11 Jul '18 04:50
    Are men totally depraved? Is every faculty of the person corrupted?

    Heart/Mind (Deceitful)

    Jeremiah 17:9 - “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?”
    Titus 1:15-16 - to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.
    Ecclesiastes 9:3 - Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
    Romans 1:28-31 - And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were… foolish
    Ephesians 4:17-18 - you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.
    Jeremiah 10:7-8,14 - among all the wise ones of the nations and in all their kingdoms there is none like you. They are both stupid and foolish… Every man is stupid and without knowledge
    Matthew 15:19 - “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.” (c.f. Mark 7:21-23)
    Genesis 6:5 & 8:21 - The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually… from his youth.
    Proverbs 10:20 - the heart of the wicked is of little worth.
    Proverbs 28:26 - Whoever trusts in his own [heart] is a fool
    c.f. Deuteronomy 29:2-4; Psalm 10:4, 36:1-2, 58:4-5, 94:11; Proverbs 10:20; Ecclesiastes 8:11; Ezekiel 11:19, 36:26; Matthew 13:14; Mark 7:21-23; Romans 8:7; Ephesians 4:17-18, 23
  3. Standard member dj2becker
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    11 Jul '18 04:51 / 1 edit
    Will/Choosing (Enslaved)

    John 8:34 - Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.”
    2 Peter 2:19 - They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved.
    Titus 3:3 - For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another.
    Galatians 4:8-9 - Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?
    Romans 6:6,16,17,19,20 - We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey…? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed… For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
    Romans 7:14 - For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.
    2 Timothy 2:25-26 - God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
    c.f. Isaiah 42:6-7; Psalm 51:12; John 8:31-32,36; 2 Corinthians 3:17

    http://traviscarden.com/total-depravity-verse-list
  4. Standard member Ghost of a Dukeonline
    Zen Master
    11 Jul '18 06:13
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    [b]Are men totally depraved? Is every faculty of the person corrupted?

    Heart/Mind (Deceitful)

    Jeremiah 17:9 - “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?”
    Titus 1:15-16 - to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.
    Ecclesiastes 9:3 - Also, t ...[text shortened]... astes 8:11; Ezekiel 11:19, 36:26; Matthew 13:14; Mark 7:21-23; Romans 8:7; Ephesians 4:17-18, 23[/b]
    Stop using the rape and torture of children as your favorite catchphrase and you will take the first step towards addressing your own pronounced and deep-seated depravity. This won't be achieved by quoting the bible.
  5. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    11 Jul '18 09:07
    This is why our own righteousness apart from God is as filthy rags.
  6. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    11 Jul '18 10:09
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    Stop using the rape and torture of children as your favorite catchphrase and you will take the first step towards addressing your own pronounced and deep-seated depravity. This won't be achieved by quoting the bible.
    Your red herring is noted. You are the one bringing up the rape and torture of children, it has not been mentioned in this thread before you did.
  7. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    11 Jul '18 10:18
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    This is why our own righteousness apart from God is as filthy rags.
    So everyone's righteousness is "filthy rags" except for members of your religion, is that how it works? That's what you tell yourself, is it?
  8. Standard member dj2becker
    rentrer à la maison
    11 Jul '18 10:35
    Originally posted by @fmf
    So everyone's righteousness is "filthy rags" except for members of your religion, is that how it works? That's what you tell yourself, is it?
    No even the self righteousness of Christians is like filthy rags.
  9. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    11 Jul '18 10:52
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    This is why our own righteousness apart from God is as filthy rags.
    Do you mean your "righteousness" is like "filthy rags" BOTH 'with God' and 'apart from God'? It didn't sound like you meant to say that.
  10. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    11 Jul '18 11:12
    Originally posted by @fmf
    So everyone's righteousness is "filthy rags" except for members of your religion, is that how it works? That's what you tell yourself, is it?
    No, did you see any exceptions? What do you care since you reject God? We are all sinners without exception and we all, including you will be without excuses before God!
  11. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    11 Jul '18 11:22
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    No, did you see any exceptions? What do you care since you reject God? We are all sinners without exception and we all, including you will be without excuses before God!
    You said "Our own righteousness apart from God is as filthy rags". This suggests ~ does it not? ~ that your own righteousness 'with' God is not as filthy rags. Please be clear about what you are [or aren't] asserting.
  12. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    11 Jul '18 11:27
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    What do you care since you reject God?
    It's a debate and discussion forum where diverse beliefs are aired and examined, KellyJay. If you want to clam up or flee in the face of a question from someone with different beliefs from you, then that is your prerogative.
  13. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    11 Jul '18 11:32
    Originally posted by @fmf
    You said "Our own righteousness apart from God is as filthy rags". This suggests ~ does it not? ~ that your own righteousness 'with' God is [b]not as filthy rags. Please be clear about what you are [or aren't] asserting.[/b]
    God is good none of us are, the Father so loved us while we were yet sinners He sent Jesus the Word of God, to become one of us to become sin who knew no sin and God punishes Jesus taking our sins and iniquities upon Himself. We are saved and made clean by Jesus Christ grace.

    This is not us being good enough or earning it is a gift. Which had you ever been a Christian even in name only you should have known.
  14. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    11 Jul '18 11:38
    Originally posted by @fmf
    You said "Our own righteousness apart from God is as filthy rags". This suggests ~ does it not? ~ that your own righteousness 'with' God is [b]not as filthy rags. Please be clear about what you are [or aren't] asserting.[/b]
    The man lacks clarity of thought and this shows up in his writing
  15. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    11 Jul '18 11:41
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    No, did you see any exceptions? What do you care since you reject God? We are all sinners without exception and we all, including you will be without excuses before God!
    There are all kinds of people. Jesus will welcome the righteous sheep into the Kingdom of God. The unrighteous goats will be cast out.