06 Oct 19
@dj2becker saidTalk about whatever you want. I am talking about what people claim are "truths" with regard to supernatural things. If you want to talk about "truths" regarding matters that hold up to empirical scrutiny - like gravity or 'the temperature outside' - take it to the Science Forum and see if anybody want to talk to you.
I’m asking you about truth in general.
06 Oct 19
@dj2becker saidI believe that, when people talk about "discovered truth" with regard to supernatural things, their claims are merely subjective opinions.
Do you believe it’s a fact that truth is discovered or is all truth merely a subjective opinion?
06 Oct 19
@dj2becker saidYou can speculate to your heart's content and your whole life long about what you are going to "discover" to be "true" when you die, but doing so does not render any beliefs that you may have - which are based on that speculation - objective.
If you are unable to answer the question just say so.
- Joined
- 01 Oct 04
- Moves
- 12095
@fmf saidHow exactly did you discover or know the ‘truth’ that ‘spiritual truth’ cannot be discovered? Or if you don’t know that it is not true that spiritual truth cannot be discovered, why are you claiming that it is true without any knowledge of it? Isn’t that being hypocritical on your part?
I believe that, when people talk about "discovered truth" with regard to supernatural things, their claims are merely subjective opinions.
06 Oct 19
@dj2becker saidAll we are doing is sharing our personal opinions about supernatural things. I am not being hypocritical at all.
How exactly did you discover or know the ‘truth’ that ‘spiritual truth’ cannot be discovered? Or if you don’t know that it is not true that spiritual truth cannot be discovered, why are you claiming that it is true without any knowledge of it? Isn’t that being hypocritical on your part?
06 Oct 19
@dj2becker saidYou are entitled to your personal opinion that you can speculate about supernatural things and, by doing so, can somehow "discover" "objective" "truths".
How exactly did you discover or know the ‘truth’ that ‘spiritual truth’ cannot be discovered?
06 Oct 19
@kellyjay saidI was trying to illustrate that not all truths are permanent. For the purpose of my post I was talking about my body, not an immortal soul, if such a thing exists.
Well now that is part of the great debate, if you do live on what then? That was a truth claim you have nothing by which to back up other than hopefulness. Scriptural doctrine that has stood the test of time says there is much more to this life than our living and dying.
07 Oct 19
@deepthought saidAgree that some truths change, not because truth can change, truth changes because the truth always corresponds to its reference. The truth of my weight can change if I pick up or lose a few pounds, the changing of my weight does not mean truth is no longer true, but the reference has been altered, so the truth of it changes with the reference.
I was trying to illustrate that not all truths are permanent. For the purpose of my post I was talking about my body, not an immortal soul, if such a thing exists.
An unchanging reference will remain true regardless of time, place, and how it is viewed, or thought of by anyone, many, or all people.
07 Oct 19
@kellyjay saidNothing is stopping you from speculating and hypothesizing about "unchanging references" that "remain true regardless of time and place" in so far as supernatural things are concerned.
An unchanging reference will remain true regardless of time, place, and how it is viewed, or thought of by anyone, many, or all people.
And nothing is stopping you from subscribing to religious doctrines that correspond to your opinions and aspirations.
But you ought not to kid yourself that this psychological - and arguably emotional - process inside your head somehow generates "objective truths".
07 Oct 19
@dj2becker saidMy personal opinion is that we can only speculate about unprovable supernatural things that are immune to empirical scrutiny - and thus become the substance of faith and superstition and conjecture and aspiration - and therefore the assertions we make about such matters are subjective and not objective.
So what is your personal opinion on why you believe that spiritual truths don’t exist?
It is my personal opinion that religious people, like you, are entitled to make whatever claims you want about "spiritual truths", but you just need to realize that, regardless of what adjectives you attach to the "truths" you perceive, your assertions will only have traction or relevance with people who agree with you.
07 Oct 19
@dj2becker saidIf what you are asking me is 'what is your personal opinion about your personal opinion?', then all I can say is that I am simply sharing my perspective on these matters'.
So what is your personal opinion on why you believe that spiritual truths don’t exist?
If what you are asking me is 'why do you believe what you believe?' then I suggest you reread the thread; I have been lucid and methodical.
- Joined
- 01 Oct 04
- Moves
- 12095
10 Oct 19
@fmf saidIf you believe there are no spiritual truths, and that all spiritual matters are mere speculation, what’s the point of debating spiritual matters if you believe it’s impossible for anyone to be right about any spiritual matter to start off with?
My personal opinion is that we can only speculate about unprovable supernatural things that are immune to empirical scrutiny - and thus become the substance of faith and superstition and conjecture and aspiration - and therefore the assertions we make about such matters are subjective and not objective.
It is my personal opinion that religious people, like you, are entitled t ...[text shortened]... " you perceive, your assertions will only have traction or relevance with people who agree with you.
10 Oct 19
@dj2becker saidBecause people's speculations about spiritual matters is an interesting subject for debate and discussion.
If you believe there are no spiritual truths, and that all spiritual matters are mere speculation, what’s the point of debating spiritual matters if you believe it’s impossible for anyone to be right about any spiritual matter to start off with?