31 Aug 19
@bigdoggproblem saidIn scripture, there were several different words translated into one-word love. A higher version of love is doing good to those in need to meet the needs. Low self-esteem does not mean that they cannot see needs to meet them. Even those that despise themselves still eat when they are hungry and can it is what they do for themselves, and they can help others with these needs too.
#2 of those is, IIRC, "love thy neighbor as thy self".
However, say you are a person with poor self esteem and you do not actually love yourself. Would that not be an exception to #2?
I'm not sure what you are getting at with what would not be an exception.
@kellyjay saidWe once had a conversation here about paying employees and you asserted your right to pay an employee less than a living wage for full-time work - indeed, the right to pay an employee as little as you possibly could in accordance with 'market forces' - if the employee's poverty created pressure that gave them no choice but to agree to work for you.
In scripture, there were several different words translated into one-word love. A higher version of love is doing good to those in need to meet the needs. Low self-esteem does not mean that they cannot see needs to meet them. Even those that despise themselves still eat when they are hungry and can it is what they do for themselves, and they can help others with these needs too.
As a Christian employer, which of the "several different words translated into one-word love" would describe the "love" you would be showing that employee by using his or her circumstances to pay them as little as you possibly could and less than enough to meet their basic needs?
A truth statement that is found in the interpretation of our minds only is an opinion, and it isn’t a real truth statement. Yes, we can believe it and act on it as if it were, but reality and our opinions of reality can be quite different from one another. God as a topic we look at if we believe there is more than one god and there is only One, all who believe in more than one god are in error, as well as those that don’t believe in any gods. The beliefs if they don’t agree with the reality of God are all going to be in error if we believe there is only one God, and we believe in the wrong God, we are in error. We would be in error because what we believe does not line up with the reality of God as is.
I heard someone say this when talking about a duck, if we make truth statements about a duck all of our truth statements about the duck would only be real truth statements about the duck if what we were saying were, in reality, true about the duck everything else would not be. I believe this is called the correspondence theory of truth. We are only portraying truth when we accurately with our words line up with reality; it is classical Greek philosopher stuff.
(Interesting read google it.)
Truth statements about God can only be truth when they accurately line up with the reality of God! This quite different than saying, I don’t believe there is evidence for a God or gods. That is not a statement about God at all since it is only a statement about the state of mind one has specifically about God. A very common dodge in avoiding making a declaration one way or another, it can be true about the speaker but does not address any questions of God’s reality at all only how they think about it. It is a rather gutless dodge in my opinion too, attempting to make a declaration with a truth statement without actually making a declaration with a truth statement.
31 Aug 19
@kellyjay saidI feel the need to add, listening to this and a lot of other speakers (Ravi Zacharias Introduction to Apologetics: 2. Truth and Reality) I believe you can find much of what said above and so much more. I drew a lot from this speaker and others. I don't want to come off as if all of this were just me.
A truth statement that is found in the interpretation of our minds only is an opinion, and it isn’t a real truth statement. Yes, we can believe it and act on it as if it were, but reality and our opinions of reality can be quite different from one another. God as a topic we look at if we believe there is more than one god and there is only One, all who believe in more than o ...[text shortened]... e a declaration with a truth statement without actually making a declaration with a truth statement.
31 Aug 19
@fmf saidLooks like you are also on pouty-ignore now.
We once had a conversation here about paying employees and you asserted your right to pay an employee less than a living wage for full-time work - indeed, the right to pay an employee as little as you possibly could in accordance with 'market forces' - if the employee's poverty created pressure that gave them no choice but to agree to work for you.
As a Christian employer, wh ...[text shortened]... mstances to pay them as little as you possibly could and less than enough to meet their basic needs?
31 Aug 19
@kellyjay saidDude. Seriously. Come off your fixation on translations and engage the point at hand for a second.
In scripture, there were several different words translated into one-word love. A higher version of love is doing good to those in need to meet the needs. Low self-esteem does not mean that they cannot see needs to meet them. Even those that despise themselves still eat when they are hungry and can it is what they do for themselves, and they can help others with these needs too.
I'm not sure what you are getting at with what would not be an exception.
It does not matter what the translation of the word "love" is. Really, no, it does not.
All we need discuss (and what, I am sure, we can agree upon) is that "love", at a minimum, must mean some sort of positive regard for another person, to the strength that it motivates action directed to the betterment of that "other person".
Now that we have gotten that dispute out of the way, I have to tell you a hard truth. There are many humans roaming around in the world that do not even have the SLIGHTEST ability in that regard (the concern for the well-being of other people).
The reason why they lack it, is that, TRULY, they LACK it ---- they are utterly unable to summon ANY regard for the plight of ANY human beings - - - including themselves.
So, I cannot help but point out, it is useless to instruct such a person to love their neighbor as themself --- because they are incapable of that kind of love, PERIOD.
This is why commandment #2 is flawed.
31 Aug 19
@bigdoggproblem saidI don't accept that anyone is incapable of love because we are all created in the image of God so God can repair any flawed man regardless of the damage done by sin. Being apart from God, it doesn't allow us to do the things God desires on our own, so even if we are thought of as in our right minds and normal we would still be incapable is due to our flaws, our brokenness before the One who is Perfect Love, who must cause us to be born again.
Dude. Seriously. Come off your fixation on translations and engage the point at hand for a second.
It does not matter what the translation of the word "love" is. Really, no, it does not.
All we need discuss (and what, I am sure, we can agree upon) is that "love", at a minimum, must mean some sort of positive regard for another person, to the strength that it moti ...[text shortened]... -- because they are incapable of that kind of love, PERIOD.
This is why commandment #2 is flawed.
31 Aug 19
@kellyjay saidBut, I am not positing that ANYONE is incapable of love.
I don't accept that anyone is incapable of love because we are all created in the image of God so God can repair any flawed man regardless of the damage done by sin. Being apart from God, it doesn't allow us to do the things God desires on our own, so even if we are thought of as in our right minds and normal we would still be incapable is due to our flaws, our brokenness before the One who is Perfect Love, who must cause us to be born again.
I am merely positing that some do not feel ANY love, for themselves, or otherwise.
31 Aug 19
@mister-moggy saidYou cannot even say truth isn't true and it not be a contradiction.
@KellyJay
if truth is relative then it cannot be truth, it is only a position.
31 Aug 19
@mister-moggy saidExactly.
@KellyJay
if truth is relative then it cannot be truth, it is only a position.
"The Truth" is not relativistic. It exists independent of one's opinion.
31 Aug 19
@bigdoggproblem saidHow sad then, since love is the fulfillment of the law.
But, I am not positing that ANYONE is incapable of love.
I am merely positing that some do not feel ANY love, for themselves, or otherwise.
31 Aug 19
@divegeester saidWell, at least FMF has you to smooch with.
Looks like you are also on pouty-ignore now.
31 Aug 19
@fmf saidDo you have anything to say relative to my assertions.
Your speculation about your God figure and all the assertions about "the Truth" that you make based on that speculation ~ i.e. your faith ~ is all subjective and relative to your individual point of view of supernatural causality.
@divegeester saidYou couldn't make a post "pertinent" to the theme of a thread even if you tried.
KellyJay I know you are childishly ignoring me, and I really don’t mind you doing that btw, but I do like to keep putting this question under your nose for you to ignore because within it there is a “truth” which is completely pertinent to the theme of this thread:
Are your “opinions” about the literal multi-headed beasts being ridden by literal whores wearing cloak ...[text shortened]... in the literal blood of Christians - open to scrutiny as opinions, or are they “absolute truth”?
You're a fraud.