21 Dec 10
Originally posted by PinkFloydIts relative to the individual so in that context I guess ToO should refrain from pushing certain people buttons as they are clearly not capable of facing the "truths" that he is often presenting them.
I think I can say unequivocally that Jesus was NOT referring to those who truly accept Him as Savior and genuinely live a Christian life in thought word and deed to the best of their ability when he made those comments. God does not expect pefection from us---if He did, don't you think He'd be settin' Himself up for some mighty mountain of disappointment? ...[text shortened]... ow He doesn't. In short,
GOD DOES, IN FACT, CUT US A LOT OF SLACK. Because we need it.
21 Dec 10
2 edits
Originally posted by PinkFloydThere's nothing in the quoted text that seems to at all indicate that "Jesus was NOT referring to those who truly accept Him as Savior and genuinely live a Christian life in thought word and deed to the best of their ability". Seems like you are projecting your desires onto the text rather than accepting what Jesus said. You seem to hear what you want to hear instead of what He said. It would seem that the first verse of the quoted text applies to you: "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word."
I think I can say unequivocally that Jesus was NOT referring to those who truly accept Him as Savior and genuinely live a Christian life in thought word and deed to the best of their ability when he made those comments. God does not expect pefection from us---if He did, don't you think He'd be settin' Himself up for some mighty mountain of disappointment? ow He doesn't. In short,
GOD DOES, IN FACT, CUT US A LOT OF SLACK. Because we need it.
As to the rest of your argument you should consider the following:
Luke 13
23And someone said to Him, “Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?” And He said to them, 24“Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Matthew 5
48“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Seems that Jesus saw things differently.
21 Dec 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneThe Bible has been put together by unscrupulous persons of the ruling class, and they omitted much that Jesus taught.....but what they did do is make sure that they gave people ultimatums, to get them to surrender to the authority of the church.
There's nothing in the quoted text that seems to at all indicate that "Jesus was NOT referring to those who truly accept Him as Savior and genuinely live a Christian life in thought word and deed to the best of their ability". Seems like you are projecting your desires onto the text rather than accepting what Jesus said. You seem to hear what you want to ...[text shortened]... e perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Seems that Jesus saw things differently.
Ultimatums such as:
1. You have only one life, and its heaven or hell, and hell if you arent a Christian.
This is false because we all have unlimited opportunity to take to the spiritual life, through re-birth after the death of the present body.
And the gate IS narrow,...... but if you dont go through, then there is your next life to take to the spiritual life, to prepare yourself for the return home to Godhead.
Vedanta explains that in the end everyone goes back to Godhead, but for some it will be a very long time.
21 Dec 10
Jesus said:
“I am the gate; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.”
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
“I am the light of the world. Anyone who follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
21 Dec 10
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterNo he didn't say this.....his words have been changed to turn the man Jesus into a God, so people will surrender to the church.
Jesus said:
“[b]I am the gate; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.”
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
“I am the light of the world. Anyone who follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”[/b]
He said " These teaching that I have given you, are the way the truth and the life"
And
"These teachings that I have given you will lead you through the gate"
And
" These teachings I have spoken are the light of the world, and anyone that follows them, will never walk in darkness"
The ruling class wanted the man Jesus to be accepted as a God, to bring people to the church, so they didn't present the pure teachings of Jesus, because Jesus rejected the false Jewish teachings, and preached the higher consciousness....so they killed him.
And after they killed him, they said that he went happily to the cross to take away the peoples sins, but this is false because he was taken to the cross against his will and murdered for undermining the authority of the Jewish law.
To make him a martyr and turn him into a God, they fabricated the idea that his death was a plan to take away peoples sins. (but it was fabricated) so the new religion Christianity would be more powerful.
Theres only one true original religion for mankind......."Vedanta Sutra"
21 Dec 10
Originally posted by vishvahetuYou are entitled to your opinion; what you say here is of course, just your opinion.
No he didn't say this.....his words have been changed to turn the man Jesus into a God, so people will surrender to the church.
He said " These teaching that I have given you, are the way the truth and the life"
And
"These teachings that I have given you will lead you through the gate"
And
" These teachings I have spoken are the light of ...[text shortened]... powerful.
Theres only one true original religion for mankind......."Vedanta Sutra"
21 Dec 10
1 edit
Originally posted by vishvahetuThe history of Christianity according the the Vedanta Sutra.
No he didn't say this.....his words have been changed to turn the man Jesus into a God, so people will surrender to the church.
He said " These teaching that I have given you, are the way the truth and the life"
And
"These teachings that I have given you will lead you through the gate"
And
" These teachings I have spoken are the light of powerful.
Theres only one true original religion for mankind......."Vedanta Sutra"
23 Dec 10
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI also recall words like "it's easier for a camel to jump thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." When the disciples questioned Jesus on this, He simply stated, with God, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. If God can get a rich man into heaven with the same effort as swueezing a camel thru a needle;s eyelet, I don't think His Almighty will have any difficulty opening the gates for Christians (imperfect, warts and all) and allowing us to enter into His holy prescence for all enernity, basking in His glory and wisdom.
There's nothing in the quoted text that seems to at all indicate that "Jesus was NOT referring to those who truly accept Him as Savior and genuinely live a Christian life in thought word and deed to the best of their ability". Seems like you are projecting your desires onto the text rather than accepting what Jesus said. You seem to hear what you want to ...[text shortened]... e perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Seems that Jesus saw things differently.
23 Dec 10
Originally posted by divegeesterI beg to differ. What vishva believes isn't merely his opinion. It is the rantings of an indoctrinated mind.
You are entitled to your opinion; what you say here is of course, just your opinion.
The Bible is sound and pure, preserved by God. After all it is God's Word.
23 Dec 10
1 edit
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneJohn 8:45 "And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not."
If a Christian tells lies, uses other forms of deceit, is a hypocrite, etc., has he embraced truth or as you say, "Jesus"? I've known many Christians including several who regularly post on this forum who evidently think nothing of engaging in any or all of the above.
Here's what Jesus had to say:
John 8
43“Why do you not understand what I am saying? ...[text shortened]... he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.[/b]
From the context of the passage you quote it can be surmised that as children of the Devil the religious rulers that Jesus was speaking to didn't believe Jesus because He spoke the truth.
But there is more than one way to lie. One can lie simply because he doesn't have full understanding and may say something that falls short of perfection. I have never met anyone, other than Jesus, with perfect understanding of the truth. I've listened to some who think they speak for God and if anyone disagrees with them that one is condemned to hell.
I hear Jesus and believe what He says, but I don't have perfect understanding. Does that make me a liar if I don't get it exactly right? (I'm not suggesting you're calling me a liar) I try always to tell the truth, but I would have to be absolutely as perfect as Jesus to never speak falsely concerning everything.
May I ask you a direct question? Do you know someone other than Jesus that is perfect in every way?
23 Dec 10
Originally posted by karoly aczelIndeed he should. I've already reprted him and received a reply and asked for further of his posted "missives" . Expressing opinion and calling it such is acceptable. Condemning an entire group to hell because of some writings that don not even out-date the Gettysburg Address is quite another.
Its relative to the individual so in that context I guess ToO should refrain from pushing certain people buttons as they are clearly not capable of facing the "truths" that he is often presenting them.
One good thing: Those moderators I so often take shots at---I can say with confidence that they ARE on the job.
23 Dec 10
Originally posted by PinkFloydThinkofOne? Really? you reported him?
Indeed he should. I've already reprted him and received a reply and asked for further of his posted "missives" . Expressing opinion and calling it such is acceptable. Condemning an entire group to hell because of some writings that don not even out-date the Gettysburg Address is quite another.
One good thing: Those moderators I so often take shots at---I can say with confidence that they ARE on the job.
Sometimes I think this forum is bizzarro world, with the song and dance about "taco and vishy" 'n' such....😞
23 Dec 10
Originally posted by PinkFloydIf God can get a rich man into heaven with the same effort as swueezing a camel thru a needle;s eyelet, I don't think His Almighty will have any difficulty opening the gates for Christians (imperfect, warts and all) and allowing us to enter into His holy prescence for all enernity, basking in His glory and wisdom.
I also recall words like "it's easier for a camel to jump thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." When the disciples questioned Jesus on this, He simply stated, with God, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. If God can get a rich man into heaven with the same effort as swueezing a camel thru a needle;s eyelet, I don't think His Alm ...[text shortened]... owing us to enter into His holy prescence for all enernity, basking in His glory and wisdom.
Once again, you seem to projecting your desires onto the text rather than accept what Jesus said.
Matthew 19
23And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24“Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” 26And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
For one, when Jesus says “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” He is addressing their question "Then who can be saved?" which they presumably ask with the erroneous assumption that the rich are more likely to "enter the kingdom of God".
For another, you seem to presume that "those who truly accept Him as Savior and genuinely live a Christian life in thought word and deed to the best of their ability" are given a free pass. Once again, there is nothing in the quoted text that indicates that.
Why do you insist on not accepting what Jesus actually said?
Once again:
Luke 13
23And someone said to Him, “Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?” And He said to them, 24“Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Matthew 5
48“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.