Originally posted by ThinkOfOneNo. I dont eat dogs and cats, but sentience has nothing to do with it. I dont place animals on the same level with humans regarding their ability to feel pleasure or pain or their ability to experience emotion.
Are there any animals other than humans, for instance dogs and cats, that you would not eat because you consider their sentience?
Regarding Hinduism, I think you may have some misconceptions. I only poked around a little and don't know if this is entirely true, but I found this:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Hindus-946/Eating-Beef.htm
Hindu dietary ...[text shortened]... anity complacent, much like fattening pigs or cows before they are slaughtered.
That Hinduism story is wrong. Cows are considered HOLY not pets, becuase legend has it they provided milk for the gods.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI'm not advocating communism, just a healthier, more aware business side to things. It will come.
I know what capitalism is. But your implications regarding it are either false or disputable.
Do you believe capitalism is wrong?
Do you believe that a farmer who keeps animals for meat is any more capitalist than a farmer who grows vegetables?
Do you believe that all farmers are inherently capitalist?
What do the communists eat?
Like I said earlier for me its not about not eating meat, per se, but giving that animal that we raise up to eat a better standard of life. Have you seen the Richard Linkleater film called "Fast Food Nation"? Even watching part of that film-let alone going to those places in real life- is enough to turn people off eating meat that comes from those places. I didn't need a camera crew to go into "Australian Beef" to know that something is fishy about the meat that comes from McDonalds. I mean "Australian Beef" is actually in Indonesia- flagrant false advertising - but it seems these people can get away with it.
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Originally posted by Rajk999Ive been to a hindu farm and I tell ya those cows are happier- they are literally glowing compared to the cows that were raised for beef in the neighbouring farms. And the milk that comes from these cows was way better than any milk I've had in my whole life.
No. I dont eat dogs and cats, but sentience has nothing to do with it. I dont place animals on the same level with humans regarding their ability to feel pleasure or pain or their ability to experience emotion.
That Hinduism story is wrong. Cows are considered HOLY not pets, becuase legend has it they provided milk for the gods.
My bottom line arguement for not wanting to eat myself is an experiential one: When I lopk into eyes of an animal- any animal- I just feel strange about eating that animal for no good reason other than that it tastes good because thats what my tastebuds are used to.
Originally posted by karoly aczelOk fine. By all means dont eat meat.
Ive been to a hindu farm and I tell ya those cows are happier- they are literally glowing compared to the cows that were raised for beef in the neighbouring farms. And the milk that comes from these cows was way better than any milk I've had in my whole life.
My bottom line arguement for not wanting to eat myself is an experiential one: When I lopk ...[text shortened]... for no good reason other than that it tastes good because thats what my tastebuds are used to.
What I dont understand is why do people feel the need to convert others to their way of thinking in such relatively petty issues?
You be a vegetarian. I choose to eat meat ... if and when I want.
Looking into the eyes of an animal .. any animal ? Geez .. get a girlfriend or something ... 🙂
Originally posted by Rajk999I dont place animals on the same level with humans regarding their ability to feel pleasure or pain or their ability to experience emotion.
No. I dont eat dogs and cats, but sentience has nothing to do with it. I dont place animals on the same level with humans regarding their ability to feel pleasure or pain or their ability to experience emotion.
That Hinduism story is wrong. Cows are considered HOLY not pets, becuase legend has it they provided milk for the gods.
You're certainly not alone on that 🙂 On the whole, humans are a self-centered and arrogant lot. Hope the "Twilight Zone" story wasn't completely lost on you. No doubt the Kanamits held a view similar to yours. In their case, humans would be the "lower animals".
That Hinduism story is wrong. Cows are considered HOLY not pets, becuase legend has it they provided milk for the gods.
I wonder if it depends on the type of Hindu. Like Christianity, there are many divisions of Hinduism with differing beliefs.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneThank you. I will give it a try. I just hope my son likes it. The way my mum cooks various 'fake meat' soy bean recipes is usually unpopular with the kids - I don't mind it too much.
An easy way is to take pretty much any favorite recipe of yours that has a sauce, e.g., curry, spaghetti sauce, curries, etc. and add beans and/or lentils instead of meat. Red kidney and black beans both have high protein and fiber content - lentils even more so and also cook quickly.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneSo would you advocate for example feeding lions in zoos on a vegetarian diet?
This doesn't logically follow. There's no more reason to advocate the elimination of all carnivores (also sentient) than humans that choose to eat meat. Perhaps you've failed to consider that humans can and do live quite healthy lives, arguably more so, without having to kill sentient beings for food.
Originally posted by karoly aczelI just questioned your apparent use of 'capitalist' as an insult. I was wondering what alternatives you were offering and what lifestyle you yourself lead. I am fairly sure that you too are a capitalist.
I'm not advocating communism, just a healthier, more aware business side to things.
I just fail to see the connection between capitalism and how we raise animals on farms. I certainly don't see Chinese farm animals living a life of luxury.
Originally posted by Rajk999There have been other good arguments presented for not eating meat. The one I pay most attention too is the environmental impact it has on the planet.
What I dont understand is why do people feel the need to convert others to their way of thinking in such relatively petty issues?
I am not convinced that it is universally the case, but it seems that the meat industry in tropical forest areas is very damaging to the environment and we have two choices - eat less meat or get better at controlling where our farmers farm.
My sister is a farmer and her land is generally improved by running animals on it, so in her case eating meat is probably a good thing environmental wise.
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Originally posted by twhiteheadThere are good arguments for moderation in eating meat.
There have been other good arguments presented for not eating meat. The one I pay most attention too is the environmental impact it has on the planet.
I am not convinced that it is universally the case, but it seems that the meat industry in tropical forest areas is very damaging to the environment and we have two choices - eat less meat or get better at ...[text shortened]... y running animals on it, so in her case eating meat is probably a good thing environmental wise.
I have not seen any good arguments for eliminating meat from ones diet altogether.
Also those arguments for moderation apply usually to the excess and waste of developed western countries. Most other countries dont glorify a 7-patty Burger. I dont know (experience) what excessive meat=eating is where Im from. Its only when I travel to the US and Canada I see firsthand what waste and greed means.
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Originally posted by twhiteheadActually I'd advocate that animals be kept/returned to self-sustaining environments.
So would you advocate for example feeding lions in zoos on a vegetarian diet?
You realize, of course, that this has nothing to do with the vegetarian question for humans.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneBut surely that results in increase suffering for the lions prey, and you have stated that allowing such suffering is morally undesirable.
Actually I'd advocate that animals be kept/returned to self-sustaining environments.
You realize, of course, that this has nothing to do with the vegetarian question for humans.
Not when the 'vegetarian question' revolves around the morality of killing animals. Why would we deem keeping a pig well fed and in a nice environment then killing it for its meat morally wrong, yet accept as morally acceptable leaving a wild boar to its natural environment where it will suffer from various horrible diseases and near starvation just to be finally killed in a painful agonizing death by a pack of wild dogs?
Originally posted by Rajk999I agree. If there is no moral aspect then moderation is what is called for and in some cases alternatives such as finding ways to ensure that farmers do not destroy the environment. In the US, the vast majority of meat is produced by using corn. In Zambia however that is not the case.
There are good arguments for moderation in eating meat.
I have not seen any good arguments for eliminating meat from ones diet altogether.
Originally posted by twhiteheadIm still waiting on ToO to explain about the 'moral consideration' he sppoke of in meat eating. The US monoculture farming is now causing problems becuase of over production. Traditional farming like what exists in Zambia in my opinion is far easier to sustain over the long haul.
I agree. If there is no moral aspect then moderation is what is called for and in some cases alternatives such as finding ways to ensure that farmers do not destroy the environment. In the US, the vast majority of meat is produced by using corn. In Zambia however that is not the case.