14 Jul 15
Originally posted by ZahlanziThe "End Times" as revealed in the Holy Bible are prophecies inspired of the infallible God of the universe.
end of the solar system and end times as it is portrayed in revelations are two different things.
well, one is a thing and the other is the ravings of a senile old man
The "End Times" of astronomers are nothing more than hypotheses of fallible men.
Originally posted by caissad4
According to Egyptian glyphs the Israelite were outcast canaanites.
Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him, and Lot went with him. And Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran. Then Abram took Sarai his wife and Lot his brother’s son, and all their possessions that they had gathered, and the people whom they had acquired in Haran, and they departed to go to the land of Canaan. So they came to the land of Canaan. Abram passed through the land to the place of Shechem, as far as the terebinth tree of Moreh. And the Canaanites were then in the land.
Then the Lord appeared to Abram and said, “To your descendants I will give this land.” And there he built an altar to the Lord, who had appeared to him. And he moved from there to the mountain east of Bethel, and he pitched his tent with Bethel on the west and Ai on the east; there he built an altar to the Lord and called on the name of the Lord. So Abram journeyed, going on still toward the South.
Now there was a famine in the land, and Abram went down to Egypt to dwell there, for the famine was severe in the land.
(Genesis 12:1-10)
HalleluYaH !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
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15 Jul 15
Originally posted by Suziannemaybe its an american thing, i dont know any christians in the uk who share those beliefs.
I'm just saying that the stuff covered in that book is mainstream Christian thought on the 'End Times'. Less so as time rolls on, it seems, the younger crowd is more likely to not really believe the Bible literally.
Originally posted by ZahlanziIf you are actually interested in reading an academic discussion of this, you should read these two books-
sorry about the missing y in the title.
so what did the canaanites do to be labeled evil? i am asking for specifics.
also, i would like to know what sort of evil needs 400 years to cook properly? god said to abraham that he will give him canaan, but not for 4 hundred years because the canaanites are not evil enough yet
Is God a Moral Monster? Making Sense of the Old Testament God
Show Them No Mercy: 4 Views on the Canaanite Genocide
The last one is a very short read that you could accomplish in 2-3 hours probably. It is a composition of 4 scholarly essays taking 4 different viewpoints. The first book is a heavier read but not terrible. All 5 authors (remember second book has 4 contributing authors) are PhDs in either Ethics or Theology.
Originally posted by AppleChessyou can view a genocide in 4 different ways?
If you are actually interested in reading an academic discussion of this, you should read these two books-
Is God a Moral Monster? Making Sense of the Old Testament God
Show Them No Mercy: 4 Views on the Canaanite Genocide
The last one is a very short read that you could accomplish in 2-3 hours probably. It is a composition of 4 sch ...[text shortened]... authors (remember second book has 4 contributing authors) are PhDs in either Ethics or Theology.
Originally posted by ZahlanziAbsolutely. Just read the book and you'll get the views.
you can view a genocide in 4 different ways?
The issue is more complex than just a face value as your question suggests. The term genocide is a strong term just as the term innocent is. I don't suppose many who oppose the Canaanite Genocide actually seriously grapple with all the issues at hand. Rather, they just see genocide and slap the term abhorrent on it and never ask or seek any further which is the epitome of intellectual blindness at worst or shallowness at best.
Many prefer to ask questions like, 'How can it ever be right to kill an innocent person?'
This question presupposes at the very least you consider it possible for a person to be truly innocent which may itself be faulty. Second, it is an anthropocentric view (which may or may not be wrong). What would a Theocentric view tell you? I'm not asking you to agree that a deity exists, but for the sake of argument IF a deity exists who created all life what rights does he therefore have over that life?
Let me know if you read it as I would be happy to discuss it with you.
I firmly believe that one of the greatest issues non-Christians have with the God of Christianity is that he is portrayed as the Sovereign King, Master, Ruler, Potentate (slap any word you like on it) and we are his creation. He is all powerful and exercises all authority and we are 100% accountable to him and he is by no means accountable to us. Yet, he is good. Sinful humanity does not like the notion of an all-powerful, all-seeing, God who will one day justly pass sentence on the nations and us as individuals. Hence, issues like the Canaanite Genocide seem particularly grotesque to us, but perhaps the issue is more that we fail to acknowledge who and what the God of the Bible really is. You may disagree with the Bible's view, but if it is correct I think you'll be hard pressed to argue that God was in the wrong.
Be a good reader and actually read the Bible well and see if you can understand that perspective. Again, you don't need to agree with it.
Originally posted by AppleChessPerhaps 'thou shall not kill' is only a moral imperative to atheists?
The issue is more complex than just a face value as your question suggests. The term genocide is a strong term just as the term innocent is. I don't suppose many who oppose the Canaanite Genocide actually seriously grapple with all the issues at hand. Rather, they just see genocide and slap the term abhorrent on it and never ask or seek any further which i ...[text shortened]... ble well and see if you can understand that perspective. Again, you don't need to agree with it.[/b]
You may very well view genocide as a more complex issue, and that not to do so is 'intellectual blindness.' I think however you have simply made it complex by trying to reason the unreasonable, to intellectualise the barbaric. Genocide is abhorrent.(Forget 'of the innocent'. It is just as abhorrent even if it was mass murder of the guilty).
P.S God was in the wrong. I think you will be hard pressed to argue that he wasn't.
Originally posted by AppleChess"and never ask or seek any further "
Absolutely. Just read the book and you'll get the views.
The issue is more complex than just a face value as your question suggests. The term genocide is a strong term just as the term innocent is. I don't suppose many who oppose the Canaanite Genocide actually seriously grapple with all the issues at hand. Rather, they just see genocide and slap the ...[text shortened]... ble well and see if you can understand that perspective. Again, you don't need to agree with it.
i don't need to. as described in the bible, ie kill all men, women and children, it is the most clear case of genocide you would find. perhaps you don't know what the term genocide means? in that case i have a wonderful book you can read. it's called a dictionary.
"This question presupposes at the very least you consider it possible for a person to be truly innocent"
children at the very least are innocent.
"IF a deity exists who created all life what rights does he therefore have over that life? "
none. if i "create" children, i don't have the right to end their lives.
"Be a good reader and actually read the Bible well "
i did. it still states that all men, women and children of canaanite origin must be killed in order for the israelites to steal their land.
"Yet, he is good."
the god portrayed in the OT is not good. he is evil. he is genocidal, infanticidal, vengeful, jealous, petty. he is probably more things, just can't be bothered to list them all. remember that time where he murderer all the first born of egypt because he hardened pharaoh's heart (messed with his free will) and didn't allow him to set the israelites free just to show off his 10 toys? that was him being good?
"Let me know if you read it as I would be happy to discuss it with you."
i will not.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeWell, I don't think the any of this is worth discussing with you as long as you think the best rendering of the 6th commandment is 'kill'.
Perhaps 'thou shall not kill' is only a moral imperative to atheists?
You may very well view genocide as a more complex issue, and that not to do so is 'intellectual blindness.' I think however you have simply made it complex by trying to reason the unreasonable, to intellectualise the barbaric. Genocide is abhorrent.(Forget 'of the innocent'. It ...[text shortened]... guilty).
P.S God was in the wrong. I think you will be hard pressed to argue that he wasn't.
How about you get the Hebrew right and see the word is 'murder'.
Notice you completely just brush over most of the points and still hold an anthropocentric view point. It might be good for you just as an academic exercise to actually try to get your mind around what the Bible said. Notice I didn't say you had to agree with it. Yet, if the Bible is true then my point was you would be hard pressed to argue God was wrong. That is the point-if it is true you will be hard pressed. You missed that completely it seems. Not surprising honestly though...
I won't discuss this anymore with you unless you show an interest to actually study it rather than just spout ignorant opinions. I didn't actually think you'd take the time to read any of it because you've walked into this already believing what you were going to believe despite any evidence to the contrary.