Originally posted by vishvahetuWhat you really mean is that 95% of your church read the King James version of the bible. The rest reads the sports in your local paper.
toFabianFanas
No, you misunderstood, because your reading into my statement with a fault finding attitude,.....it is clear that i meant the christians, not the population of earth.
As far as the comment about the commandments goes, its too trivial to discuss, and any way the commanments where written by moses, not god, and they where written as a ch ...[text shortened]... by the ruling class to control the people, with a hope the people behave themselves.
vishva
Did you look up the ten commandments and compared them between different translations yet? You did found them in yours, didn't you?
Originally posted by Grampy Bobbyif God doesn't need or want anything from us, then He is indifferent to what we do. And if He is indifferent, why does He reward some behaviour and punish other behaviour? Furthermore, since the rewards and punishments are effectively infinite or, in the case of punishment at least very great, the implication is that He wants very much for us to act in certain ways. otherwise he is effectively saying 'do what you will, but if you do this, i'll condemn you to the flames of hell'.
[b]Simpler still. God needs nothing and wants nothing (by the very definition of His eternal selfhood, self awareness, self determination, omniscience, omnipotence, veracity, immutability and the absolute perfection of His divine integrity). Answer to your question as applied to human creatures is also exceedingly simple: an uncoerced 'Yes' or 'No' ...[text shortened]... he sole purpose of reconciling depraved mankind. Only issue is what do you think of Christ.[/b]
Originally posted by BlackampVery rational.
if God doesn't need or want anything from us, then He is indifferent to what we do. And if He is indifferent, why does He reward some behaviour and punish other behaviour? Furthermore, since the rewards and punishments are effectively infinite or, in the case of punishment at least very great, the implication is that He wants very much for us to act in cert ...[text shortened]... aying 'do what you will, but if you do this, i'll condemn you to the flames of hell'.
God is either indifferent or He wants something from us.
If God is indifferent then man is raising a ruckus for nothing.
But if God wants something from us, then we better find out what it is.
If there be a God.
God certainly wants "pleasure" .
If so His desire for His "good pleasure" (Eph. 1:5) is the strongest of all existing lives.
"Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Chrsit to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will."
God has a will and "the good pleasure" of carrying it out. Can we say He needs nothing ?
He needs to have the good pleasure of His will carried out. And for this will, this passage strongly implies, He created the universe.
In other words Ephesians 1:4,5 strongly suggests that first God had a desire, a plan. And based upon this desire and plan He then created the universe.
Sure, Look carefully.
"Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love,
predestinating is to sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will..."
Do you see this. God had a desire for sons. Then to fulfill this desire He laid the foundation of the world. Since His desire for sons preceeded the laying of the foundation of the world, the implication is strong that for His purpose of having sons, God created the creation.
IT could be that as the MOST living One of all living beings, God's need is the strongest.
One point that he expects from us would be a unity in beliefs...
A New, Pure Language
Through his prophet Zephaniah, Jehovah foretold: “Then I shall give to peoples the change to a pure language, in order for them all to call upon the name of Jehovah, in order to serve him shoulder to shoulder.” (Zeph. 3:9) What is that “pure language,” and how can we learn to speak it fluently?
The pure language is the truth about Jehovah God and his purposes as found in his Word, the Bible. That “language” includes a correct understanding of the truth about God’s Kingdom and how it will sanctify Jehovah’s name, vindicate his sovereignty, and bring eternal blessings to faithful mankind. What results from this change of language? We are told that people will “call upon the name of Jehovah” and will “serve him shoulder to shoulder.” This change to the pure language has resulted in praise to Jehovah’s name and unity for his people.
Originally posted by galveston75so God expects us to believe what you believe?
One point that he expects from us would be a unity in beliefs...
A New, Pure Language
Through his prophet Zephaniah, Jehovah foretold: “Then I shall give to peoples the change to a pure language, in order for them all to call upon the name of Jehovah, in order to serve him shoulder to shoulder.” (Zeph. 3:9) What i ...[text shortened]... s change to the pure language has resulted in praise to Jehovah’s name and unity for his people.
More on the unity that would be needed:
Watchtower 2005
United by Love of God
WHEN the Christian congregation was formed in the first century of our Common Era, one of its outstanding characteristics—despite the diversity of its members—was its unity. Those worshipers of the true God came from nations in Asia, Europe, and Africa. They represented a variety of backgrounds—priests, soldiers, slaves, refugees, tradesmen, professionals, and businesspeople. Some were Jews, and others, Gentiles. Many had been adulterers, homosexuals, drunkards, thieves, or extortioners. Nevertheless, when they became Christians, they left their bad practices behind and became closely united in the faith.
What enabled first-century Christianity to bring all these people together in unity? Why were they at peace with one another and with people in general? Why did they not join in uprisings and conflicts? Why was early Christianity so different from today’s major religions?
What Drew Congregation Members Close Together?
The foremost factor that united fellow believers in the first century was love of God. Those Christians recognized their primary obligation to love the true God, Jehovah, with all their heart, soul, and mind. For instance, the apostle Peter, a Jew, was instructed to visit the house of a foreign national, someone with whom he would not normally have close association. What moved him to obey was primarily love for Jehovah. Peter and other early Christians enjoyed a close relationship with God that was based on accurate knowledge of His personality, likes, and dislikes. In time, all worshipers understood that it was Jehovah’s will for them to be “united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.”—1 Corinthians 1:10; Matthew 22:37; Acts 10:1-35.
Believers were further drawn together by their faith in Jesus Christ. They wanted to follow closely in his footsteps. He commanded them: “Love one another; just as I have loved you . . . By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:34, 35) This was to be, not a superficial emotion, but a self-sacrificing love. What would be the result? Jesus prayed concerning those putting faith in him: “I make request . . . that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us.”—John 17:20, 21; 1 Peter 2:21.
Jehovah poured out his holy spirit, or active force, upon his true servants. This spirit promoted unity among them. It opened to them an understanding of Bible teachings that was accepted in all congregations. Worshipers of Jehovah preached the same message—the sanctification of Jehovah’s name through God’s Messianic Kingdom, a heavenly government that is to rule over all mankind. Early Christians understood their obligation to be “no part of this world.” Hence, whenever civil uprisings or military conflicts occurred, Christians remained neutral. They pursued peace with everyone.—John 14:26; 18:36; Matthew 6:9, 10; Acts 2:1-4; Romans 12:17-21.
All believers assumed their responsibility to promote unity. How? By ensuring that their conduct was in harmony with the Bible. Hence, the apostle Paul wrote to Christians: “Put away the old personality which conforms to your former course of conduct,” and “put on the new personality.”—Ephesians 4:22-32.
Originally posted by galveston75the early Christians were anything but united, they were split into two major groups, orthodox and gnostics. There were also many smaller sub sets of these factions, gentile, Jew, trinitarians, unitarians, etc... it wasn't until the council of Nicene which you so quickly dismiss that Christians became unified under one Orthodox set of beliefs.
[b]More on the unity that would be needed:
Watchtower 2005
United by Love of God
WHEN the Christian congregation was formed in the first century of our Common Era, one of its outstanding characteristics—despite the diversity of its members—was its unity. Those worshipers of the true God came from nations in Asia, Europe, and Africa. They represented a variety of backgrounds— ]
of course don't believe me, read a history book instead
Originally posted by jaywillto jaywill
God certainly wants [b]"pleasure" .
If so His desire for His "good pleasure" (Eph. 1:5) is the strongest of all existing lives.
"Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Chrsit to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will."
God has a will and "the good pleasure" of carrying it out. Can we say He needs nothi ...[text shortened]... uld be that as the MOST living One of all living beings, God's need is the strongest.[/b]
christians rely on the bible, and therefore have false knowledge, all the spiritual living entities already exist because their eternal along with god, so how can god create sons, if they already exist with him.
Your body was created from dust, and will return to dust, but you are a spiritual being and eternal with no beggining and end, so their is no such thing as god creating some sons, bacause all the sons god desires, are all ready existing.
This is what happens, when you embrace the bible blindly, you are left with only false doctrine.
You have it correct about god embracing pleasure, though.
vishva
Originally posted by vishvahetuAppears you believe in God but only on your own terms....I think we would rather stick with Gods word rather than yours...
to jaywill
christians rely on the bible, and therefore have false knowledge, all the spiritual living entities already exist because their eternal along with god, so how can god create sons, if they already exist with him.
Your body was created from dust, and will return to dust, but you are a spiritual being and eternal with no beggining and end, s ...[text shortened]... with only false doctrine.
You have it correct about god embracing pleasure, though.
vishva
if you are so against the teachings of the Bible why then do you use some of its contents?
Mr Vish you need to learn that its not all about you, and your personal opinion...It is you that needs to submit to God and his word and not to foolishly change his scripture to suite yourself.
Originally posted by barstuddto barstud
Appears you believe in God but only on your own terms....I think we would rather stick with Gods word rather than yours...
if you are so against the teachings of the Bible why then do you use some of its contents?
Mr Vish you need to learn that its not all about you, and your personal opinion...It is you that needs to submit to God and his word and not to foolishly change his scripture to suite yourself.
I have only come here, in the mood of bringing people to a higher understanding of spiritual matters, if in the process i insult someone it is not on purpose, and should not be taken that way.
I have said before the bible is not the word of god, but of men with an agenda to control, and if it where the word of god, it would not contain false knowledge.
If i use the word goobly gook, i think i am being gentle, because i may choose harsher terms but i choose not.
It is beyond senseability, why you defend the bible in the first place, because it clearly is not a book that an all intelligent god would be proud of, with all its judging and hell and fabricated miracles, and does not tell people that they are eternal already.
May i ask you,....are we not eternal aleady, please exsplain?
vishva
Originally posted by FabianFnasthis is true. yet most Christians have a core set of beliefs on which they agree, the rest is dogma unsubstantiated by scripture
The today's christians are even today not united. Christians will never be united.
How many religions is there under the christian umbrella? I don't know, how many christians are there?