@fmf saidChrist cleans us, gives us His Spirit, and changes us. That is the only reason we can go to God as His family. This is not something I can take credit for.
If your belief in Christ doesn't make you any better than me, why do I [according to your belief] face eternal torture after I die while you face eternal "paradise"? It seems to me that you claim to have some doubleplusgoodthink that I don't have, and that's all.
What is your view of humanity?
@ghost-of-a-duke saidWhat does it mean to be human?
I boldly suggest Christianity does just that. It divides humans up into those worthy of salvation and those destined for damnation.
I put it to you sir that religion gets in the way of what it truly means to be human and denigrates our commonality.
@kellyjay saidI don't believe Jesus' death "saved" anyone from anything.
There is nothing about me that makes me any better than anyone else on my own. Without Christ we are all sinners without hope, but we were made for so much more. Created in the image of our Creator, that makes us very valuable from the least of us on.
If you view the 10 Commandments you see everything about us is to be considered Holy too, our lives, even our family, and ...[text shortened]... hold each of us so valuable Jesus came to save us because of His love for us!
Your view is what?
I think the notion that God could only forgive humans - for their immoral acts - and grant them an "afterlife" if he arranged a human sacrifice of a human manifestation of himself ~ to be one of the most convoluted and farfetched bits of manmade ideology in the whole of history.
I don't think any of these convoluted superstitious ideas have any impact whatsoever on your worth ~ I don't think your belief that you are "saved" [by your religious beliefs] despite your self-confessed "evil and wickedness" has any impact whatsoever on your worth as a human being. I think it is neither here or there that you believe these things about yourself.
I think your worth comes from the nature of your interaction with your fellow human beings. I think your worth comes from your individualism - which I define [although it's not my definition] as "Meeting our obligations to the community through our personal participation".
@kellyjay saidI think our humanity ~ whether we be theists or atheists ~ draws on the fact we are evidently endowed with a capacity for projecting ourselves in abstract ways and also we are affected and influenced and shaped by the abstract projections of other people.
What is your view of humanity?
Added to this, we clearly have individual spirits ~ perhaps the same thing that most religionists refer to as a "soul" although they see it differently from a non-believer and non-superstitious person like me ~ which comprise personality, uniqueness, relationships, and other abstract aspects all bound together in the singular personal narrative that each of us accumulates as we live our lives.
Therefore, I see our humanity – and perhaps even the ‘purpose’ of being humans, at least for me – as being about loving and being loved and learning and helping others to learn about our species and our world in the time we have before we die and cease to exist. That’s our common humanity, I’d say.
And if there is a creator god or gods that gave me this wonderful opportunity to be a human, unlike religionists who convince themselves they have a shot at everlasting life, I am not saying ‘This life is not enough’.
@fmf saidIncidentally, the first time sonship accused me of "eating faeces" and "spreading germs", it was in reply to a post like the one above.
I think our humanity ~ whether we be theists or atheists ~ draws on the fact we are evidently endowed with a capacity for projecting ourselves in abstract ways and also we are affected and influenced and shaped by the abstract projections of other people.
Added to this, we clearly have individual spirits ~ perhaps the same thing that most religionists refer to as a "soul" alt ...[text shortened]... convince themselves they have a shot at everlasting life, I am not saying ‘This life is not enough’.
We are a mix of reason and passion; of the primal, and the logical.
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil can be thought of as a metaphor for the birth of reason in humans. Gone were the days when we could simply follow the varied urges to eat, sleep, protect our tribe, mate, etc. and not worry about much else. Reason evolved - we "ate from the tree" - and now we are forever aware of the far-reaching consequences of our own actions.
It is both a blessing, and a curse. On the one hand, the quality and length of our lives have greatly improved. On the other, we have to worry about things like how much plastic we dump in the ocean.
At least we've got a sense of humor to give us some relief from all the weighty considerations.
@bigdoggproblem saidWe are a mix of reason and passion; of the primal, and the logical.
We are a mix of reason and passion; of the primal, and the logical.
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil can be thought of as a metaphor for the birth of reason in humans. Gone were the days when we could simply follow the varied urges to eat, sleep, protect our tribe, mate, etc. and not worry about much else. Reason evolved - we "ate from the tree" - and now we are forever aware of the far-reaching consequences of our own actions.
It is both a blessing, and a curse. On the one hand, the quality and length of our lives have greatly improved. On the other, we have to worry about things like how much plastic we dump in the ocean.
At least we've got a sense of humor to give us some relief from all the weighty considerations.
Outstanding post.