What non-believers struggle with -

@pb1022 said
I won’t - until you write another asinine OP like how you “stood strong in your atheism.”

I haven't written any "asinine OPs".

@fmf said
I haven't written any "asinine OPs".

If you feel that is the case, you are entitled to that opinion.

@pb1022 said
That’s why it really isn’t worth debating you.

Stick with this, I suggest. If you think "debate" with me isn't worth it or that I start "asinine" threads, don't bother engaging me.

@fmf said
Stick with this, I suggest. If you think "debate" with me isn't worth it or that I start "asinine" threads, don't bother engaging me.

I will decide when and under what conditions to “engage” you.

If that is unacceptable to you, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Thank you for your input.

@pb1022 said
I will decide when and under what conditions to “engage” you.

Your silly banter, though, is wasted on me. Bear that in mind.

@fmf said
What is more interesting is the fact that some Christians DO claim that they are elevated "to some higher moral level" ["slip-ups" notwithstanding] and this is supposedly the effect of "The Holy Spirit" ~ a supernatural transformation, apparently, that non-believers cannot possibly understand ~ added to which is the notion that any self-propelled efforts to "improve their behaviour as a result of God's law" may end in "damnation".

What is more interesting is the fact that some Christians DO claim that they are elevated "to some higher moral level"

Please go back and read the OP. This has nothing to do with what some Christians claim.

@fmf said
Your silly banter, though, is wasted on me. Bear that in mind.

Thank you for your contribution.

@mchill said
How can he (or she) claim to be a Christian and do _______!!😠 I've been hearing this from the non-believer crowd for decades.

Folks, just because someone accepts Jesus Christ as their savior, and does their best to follow God's law, does not automatically elevate them to some higher moral level. They may be more aware of God's law, and may be improving their behavior as a ...[text shortened]... them, but this needs to be stated over and over:

Christians Are Not Perfect, Just Forgiven! 🙂

I am a non-believer and I don’t struggle with Christians’ moral weakness and hypocrisy at all. I find them to be neither more nor less morally weak and hypocritical than anyone else. Just smug about having been forgiven.

@moonbus said
I am a non-believer and I don’t struggle with Christians’ moral weakness and hypocrisy at all. I find them to be neither more nor less morally weak and hypocritical than anyone else. Just smug about having been forgiven.

I’d suggest you don’t know many Christians or at least know them well.

@pb1022 said
I’d suggest you don’t know many Christians or at least know them well.

Suggestion noted. I am surrounded by them, grew up with them in my family, was dragged to church by them until I refused to go, went to school and later college with them, and find them to be quite common among my friends and colleagues. They seem to have infiltrated the entire continent.

EDIT: My sister was a Pentecostalist for some time (dunno whether she still is); they are the ones who speak in tongues.my mother and grandmother were Christian Scientists. So, I do know some Christians quite well.

@mchill said
What is more interesting is the fact that some Christians DO claim that they are elevated "to some higher moral level"

Please go back and read the OP. This has nothing to do with what some Christians claim.

Do you have some biblical support for your doctrine that Christians are forgiven? I tae it you mean forgiven for all their sins. Do you realise that Paul said that there is no inheritance in the Kingdom of God [and that some will be destroyed] for Christians who commit sins, so it seems farfetched to think that Christians have a blanket forgiveness for all sins. [dont ask me what kind of sins]. Paul said that several times and I will be happy to quote the references for you.

@rajk999 said
Do you have some biblical support for your doctrine that Christians are forgiven? I tae it you mean forgiven for all their sins. Do you realise that Paul said that there is no inheritance in the Kingdom of God [and that some will be destroyed] for Christians who commit sins, so it seems farfetched to think that Christians have a blanket forgiveness for all sins. [dont ask ...[text shortened]... hat kind of sins]. Paul said that several times and I will be happy to quote the references for you.

“Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.”

(Mark 3:28-30)

“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”

(Colossians 2:13)

@mchill said
How can he (or she) claim to be a Christian and do _______!!😠 I've been hearing this from the non-believer crowd for decades.

Folks, just because someone accepts Jesus Christ as their savior, and does their best to follow God's law, does not automatically elevate them to some higher moral level. They may be more aware of God's law, and may be improving their behavior as a ...[text shortened]... them, but this needs to be stated over and over:

Christians Are Not Perfect, Just Forgiven! 🙂

Thank you. I appreciate your presentation of that POV.

@pb1022 said
I will decide when and under what conditions to “engage” you.

If that is unacceptable to you, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Thank you for your input.

On a perhaps relevant tangent, the reason I don't practice magic in the occult sense is that I know I am not fully aware of or in control of where my desires come from.

It could also be said that I don't know what I might be thinking 15 or 30 seconds from now.

Do you?

I do appreciate that in general Christians who engage in prayers of petition recognize that G*d has the overview and veto power, and generally close such prayers with "Thy will be done," which in some cases can be QUITE an act of submission. 😉

@mchill said
Please go back and read the OP. This has nothing to do with what some Christians claim.

Of course it does. Perhaps you don't understand your own OP and/or the conversation it's given rise to. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened.