How can he (or she) claim to be a Christian and do _______!!😠I've been hearing this from the non-believer crowd for decades.
Folks, just because someone accepts Jesus Christ as their savior, and does their best to follow God's law, does not automatically elevate them to some higher moral level. They may be more aware of God's law, and may be improving their behavior as a result, but this needs to be stated over and over:
Christians Are Not Perfect, Just Forgiven!
This is a difficult one for non-believers to wrap their heads around, and that's OK, I did too for a few years, then one day a Christian author / storyteller put things in perspective this way: "I used to think the Bible was a big book of don'ts i.e., don't do this, don't do that etc. Since I became a Christian, I've been reading the Bible and I found there are far more do's than there is don'ts, and if you spend your time doing the do's, you don't have much time to do the don'ts" Christians aren't perfect folks, and I'm in the same boat as the rest of them, but this needs to be stated over and over:
Christians Are Not Perfect, Just Forgiven! 🙂
@mchill saidI am a non-believer and I don't "struggle" with the immoral behaviour of Christians at all.
How can he (or she) claim to be a Christian and do _______!!😠I've been hearing this from the non-believer crowd for decades.
Folks, just because someone accepts Jesus Christ as their savior, and does their best to follow God's law, does not automatically elevate them to some higher moral level. They may be more aware of God's law, and may be improving their behavior as a ...[text shortened]... them, but this needs to be stated over and over:
Christians Are Not Perfect, Just Forgiven! 🙂
- Joined
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- 1990
@mchill saidReminds me of the saying, “Good people aren’t in Heaven. Forgiven sinners are.”
How can he (or she) claim to be a Christian and do _______!!😠I've been hearing this from the non-believer crowd for decades.
Folks, just because someone accepts Jesus Christ as their savior, and does their best to follow God's law, does not automatically elevate them to some higher moral level. They may be more aware of God's law, and may be improving their behavior as a ...[text shortened]... them, but this needs to be stated over and over:
Christians Are Not Perfect, Just Forgiven! 🙂
That said, I think a Christian should, over time, be much different than he or she was before becoming a Christian. Obviously not perfect, as even the Apostle Paul struggled to do what’s right and not do what’s wrong, but markedly better.
And if someone isn’t different or markedly better over time after accepting and believing in Jesus Christ and believing in His Resurrection, then I think they have to honestly ask themselves if they were sincere in accepting Christ, and, if they were, spend more time reading (or even handwriting) the Holy Bible and spend more time in prayer to strengthen the influence of God’s indwelt Holy Spirit in their lives.
And I’d be wary about judging any Christian, especially on the Internet: You don’t know where they started in their walk with Christ and what they’ve endured and overcome so far.
Another thing I think it’s important to bear in mind - Christians can and do experience spiritual attacks. That’s absolutely Biblical, and the Apostle Paul addresses how to deal with it in Ephesians:
“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;”
(Ephesians 6:11-18)
11 Feb 22
@mchill saidWhat is more interesting is the fact that some Christians DO claim that they are elevated "to some higher moral level" ["slip-ups" notwithstanding] and this is supposedly the effect of "The Holy Spirit" ~ a supernatural transformation, apparently, that non-believers cannot possibly understand ~ added to which is the notion that any self-propelled efforts to "improve their behaviour as a result of God's law" may end in "damnation".
Folks, just because someone accepts Jesus Christ as their savior, and does their best to follow God's law, does not automatically elevate them to some higher moral level. They may be more aware of God's law, and may be improving their behavior as a result
@mchill saidIn real and practical terms, what "fruits" - in terms of demeanour and behaviour - do you think are evidence that a person's claim to be a Christian is true?
How can he (or she) claim to be a Christian and do _______!!😠I've been hearing this from the non-believer crowd for decades.
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- 25 Nov 21
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11 Feb 22
@fmf saidI can think of two examples, both from Galatians:
In real and practical terms, what "fruits" - in terms of demeanour and behaviour - do you think are evidence that a person's claim to be a Christian is true?
“Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.”
(Galatians 6:2)
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”
(Galatians 5:22-23)
11 Feb 22
@pb1022 saidI am asking for real and practical evidence, not claims based on dogma.
I can think of two examples, both from Galatians:
“Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.”
(Galatians 6:2)
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”
(Galatians 5:22-23)
11 Feb 22
@fmf saidAnd as you've perhaps noticed, some fail spectacularly.
What is more interesting is the fact that some Christians DO claim that they are elevated "to some higher moral level" ["slip-ups" notwithstanding] and this is supposedly the effect of "The Holy Spirit" ~ a supernatural transformation, apparently, that non-believers cannot possibly understand ~ added to which is the notion that any self-propelled efforts to "improve their behaviour as a result of God's law" may end in "damnation".
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11 Feb 22
@fmf saidYou don’t think bearing someone’s burdens is evidence? You don’t the fruits of the Spirit, which are the result of a changed heart, lead to changed behavior?
I am asking for real and practical evidence, not claims based on dogma.
But if you want “real and practical evidence” how about someone who, prior to becoming a Christian, donated very little to no money to charity but, after becoming a Christian, donates substantial sums to charity?
Let me know if that qualifies as “real and practical evidence,” and I’ll cite other examples.
11 Feb 22
@fmf saidWhile you may consider this mere dogma, there is some truth to it.
I am asking for real and practical evidence, not claims based on dogma.
"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." -- John 10:10, KJV
A more abundant life is certainly one signpost, yet not definitive, as there are always those lucky ones who seem able to just purchase their abundant life.
11 Feb 22
@pb1022 saidSharing what they have is easy enough, yet many chose not to.
You don’t think bearing someone’s burdens is evidence? You don’t the fruits of the Spirit, which are the result of a changed heart, lead to changed behavior?
But if you want “real and practical evidence” how about someone who, prior to becoming a Christian, donated very little to no money to charity but, after becoming a Christian, donates substantial sums to charity?
Let me know if that qualifies as “real and practical evidence,” and I’ll cite other examples.
Giving of oneself is more important.