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    14 May '17 03:50
    For those who believe in God but do not believe in a hell, what role does death play?
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    14 May '17 04:001 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    For those who believe in God but do not believe in a hell, what role does death play?
    Firstly, what do you believe about hell; is it eternal suffering? Is it Annihilation?
  3. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    14 May '17 05:21
    Originally posted by whodey
    For those who believe in God but do not believe in a hell, what role does death play?
    relief from physical pain ... ahhhh
  4. Standard membersonship
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    14 May '17 12:313 edits
    Hell is Hades. It has always denoted the whole realm of being DEAD.
    Strictly speaking everyone is going to Hell when he or she dies.

    Again, everyone who dies is going to Hell or Hades - the realm of being dead.
    In the Old Testament Hades or Hell was called Sheol.

    Before I would stop dodging the question (I thought some of you would like that), I would say that the last enemy of God is death. And so the symbolism of Revelation shows HELL or HADES being cast into a final disposal place for both death and Hades called "the lake of fire".

    Death and Hell (or Hades, aka Sheol) are finally no longer needed by God for whatever purpose He had for them. They are discarded in the lake of fire.

    " And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:14)


    And I like this verse which shows that death is the "last enemy" of God. He is more sick of it than He is of sin.

    " Death, the last enemy is being abolished." (1 Cor. 15:26)


    Whatever role death plays it will lose its necessity and is even now being abolished. At the commencement of the new heaven and new earth it is cast into the lake of fire - completely abolished.

    This should mean that "the second death" has an eternal role.
    But death, Hades - Hell have a temporary role which will be abolished.

    In the next post maybe I'll speak to the nature of the role of this thing or place called Hell.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    14 May '17 12:43
    So what role does death play?

    Death reveals an authority and power is in existence in the universe other than God's authority. Death serves a role of demonstrating that another authority and might has established itself in the universe beside the authority and might of God.

    The Bible says that the Devil is the one who has "the might of death":

    " ... that through death He [Christ] might destroy him who has the might of death, that is, the devil." (Heb. 2:14c)


    One role of death is that it reveals the power of an authority that has illegitimately come into existence to oppose God.

    Notice that in the passage about death being the last enemy that is abolished, death is an item of authority among others that Christ is putting down one by one in subjection to His act of reigning over all the universe.

    " Then the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to His God and Father; once He has abolished all RULE and all AUTHORITY and POWER.

    For He must reign until God puts all His enemies under His feet. Death, the last enemy, is being abolished. "


    Death therefore has the role of being an indication of an enemy with power and ill-established authority in contrast to the eternal authority of God and Christ.

    I'll stop this post here.
  6. Standard membersonship
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    14 May '17 12:59
    Notice that death and Hades are kind of a twosome - a team.

    Death and Hades are seen together in Revelation 7 running through the earth.
    And the same team is depicted as being thrown into the eternal lake of fire.

    Running together as a team:

    " And when He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, Come.

    And I saw, and behold, a pale horse, and he who sits upon it, his name is Death; and Hades [Hell] followed with him. " (Rev. 6:7,8a)


    Being finally destroyed together:

    " And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:14)


    We can also see that the specific "role" is assigned to death and hades as they are seen running through the earth.

    " ... his name is Death; and Hades followed with him. And authority was given to them over the fourth part of the earth to kill with the sword and with famine and with death and by the beats of the earth." (See Rev. 6:8)
  7. Standard membersonship
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    14 May '17 13:08
    Now at this point I want to write that perhaps the ultimate role of death is that it is used by God to destroy the one opposing God.

    i might say that an ultimate role of death is a means to destroy the devil who had its might to begin with. In other words perhaps ultimately the devil weapon is used to destroy the devil himself. God in His wisdom utilizes Satan's own weapon against the uncreated and eternal living One to undue that rebel Satan himself.

    I say that because of this -

    " Since therefore the children have shared in blood and flesh, He [Christ] Himself in like manner partook of the same,

    that through death He might destroy him who has the might of death, that is, the devil." (Heb. 2:14)


    Death is a part of the Devil's might and authority. Under God's infinite wisdom and eternal foresight, God utilizes the devil's weapon to destroy the devil himself by becoming a flesh and blood man who also can be subject to death.

    God in Christ uses the Devils "ace" against the Devil himself to destroy him.
  8. Standard membersonship
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    14 May '17 15:542 edits
    Through death Jesus destroyed him who had the might of death, that is the Devil.
    Jesus used the Devil's own master weapon to oppose the God of eternal life and with it, destroyed the Devil.

    The meaning of "destroyed" the Devil is something of a distinct discussion of its own.
    For it will be objected - "Well, if by dying Jesus destroyed the Devil, why does the Devil seem to still be around."

    The full execution of the Devil's being destroyed requires the cooperation of those who belong to Christ and apply Christ's salvation to themselves. This matter touches on another thread too about sin dwelling in man and the God-men nullifying it by means of Christ living in them - applying to themselves the finished work of Christ.

    But I digress a bit.

    It appears to me that in eternity "past" God the Creator of all knew within Himself what would be the result of creating sentient beings with their own free will. God knows all. And God had the wisdom to know the potential existed for his creatures to choose of their own freedom that they wanted nothing to do with their Creator.

    My belief is that God, in His wisdom, decided that ALL such created creatures who choose to not be under God's authority, He would arrange to be all together under one leader. One creature was created with that potential to act as a reservoir to collect under his authority all other beings who shared his aspiration - to usurp the throne of Almighty God the Most High.

    This is one reason why I believe in an ancient universe rather than a young earth. I think that the period of time after creation that this being existed was probably a long time. Perhaps he began to reason that God must be a pushover, a sap, a "not too strong and not too smart" God.

    At some time the rebellion began and was headed up by this grand rebel of all rebels. I think God in His foreknowledge let Satan the deputy arch-angel being act as a reservoir around whom all other beings who want to revolt against their Creator, were gathered as one party.

    That would include, as far as we know, ancient angels, demonic beings, fallen human beings - ALL subsumed under one unique and grand sinning and revolting created being.

    Death is related to the power of this one. He is said to be the one who has the might of death. God warned the first created humans that if they crossed a certain line of obedience, they would DIE - surely. And it happened.

    "And Jehovah God commanded the man saying, Of every tree of the garden you may eat freely. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, of it you shall not eat; for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." (Gen. 2:16,17)


    God says the saved are transferred out of the kingdom of darkness (and death) and into the kingdom of the Son of His love.

    " Giving thanks to the Father, who has ... delivered us out of the authority of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

    In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins; " (Col. 1:13,14)


    Death is part of the Devil kingdom from which the saved must be transferred from into the eternal kingdom of the Triune God.
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    15 May '17 04:09
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Firstly, what do you believe about hell; is it eternal suffering? Is it Annihilation?
    Whodey are you going to come back to this thread?
  10. Joined
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    15 May '17 04:37
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Whodey are you going to come back to this thread?
    Whodey?
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    15 May '17 10:09
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Firstly, what do you believe about hell; is it eternal suffering? Is it Annihilation?
    I'm not here to talk about what I believe, I'm here to understand how those who do not believe in a hell view death.

    So I would assume that you believe then that God merely will do away with certain people instead of eternal torchure, and then save the rest?
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    15 May '17 10:12
    Originally posted by whodey
    I'm here to understand how those who do not believe in a hell view death.
    Do you believe in "hell"/torture? How do you view death?
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    15 May '17 13:20
    Originally posted by FMF
    Do you believe in "hell"/torture? How do you view death?
    From Biblical accounts it would appear not to be a very fun existence.

    For those who believe in God but not hell, what purpose is their for death?
  14. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    15 May '17 13:371 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    Notice that death and Hades are kind of a twosome - a team.

    Death and Hades are seen together in [b]Revelation 7
    running through the earth.
    And the same team is depicted as being thrown into the eternal lake of fire.

    Running together as a team:

    " And when He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature s ...[text shortened]... word and with famine and with death and by the beats of the earth." (See Rev. 6:8)
    [/b]
    Jc and god r a team 2😛
  15. Standard membercaissad4
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    15 May '17 13:53
    Death is but a doorway.
    😉
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