Originally posted by howardgeeNot for the first time and most assuredly not for the last, I was not raised Christian and I have never gone to church on my own accord. I studied, researched, and found Christianity to be the most logical. I then asked God to come into my life with sincerity and He did, so I don't plan on turning back.
...but enough people have repeatedly told you that the bible is the word of God, and you unquestioningly accept that now!
That must suck for you atheists who think "religious folk" are all stupid and brainwashed, eh? I mean, it would be easy to explain it away then. But a coherent, intelligent guy like me who says it seemed the most logical? Why...that would mean there might be something there!
*head explodes*
Originally posted by DarfiusWhen you say you studied, what did you study? I'm not antagonizing, I'm just asking.
Not for the first time and most assuredly not for the last, I was not raised Christian and I have never gone to church on my own accord. I studied, researched, and found Christianity to be the most logical. I then asked God to come into my life with sincerity and He did, so I don't plan on turning back.
That must suck for you atheists who think "relig ...[text shortened]... emed the most logical? Why...that would mean there might be something there!
*head explodes*
Originally posted by CliffLandinI studied the Bible and whether or not archeology contradicted its claims like Mormonism. I also did a brief research on other religions, but none came even close to explaining the universe, the soul, and the moral code we all seem to have. At first I struggled with the overwhelming evidence of evolution but I now see that Genesis neatly matches with evolution, including the order in which life appeared and evolved.
When you say you studied, what did you study? I'm not antagonizing, I'm just asking.
www.godandscience.org if you're interested.
I also studied the Ressurection of Jesus and found that the Jewish Talmud (no matter how much Nemesio tries to disclaim it) speaks about Jesus and comes up with a couple of theories about where He got His powers from. Also it occured to me that if everyone wanted to forget and hated Jesus so much, why would they use His name as a curse word? Or why is our dating system centered around an obscure (allegedly nonexistent) Jew? Why do the Jewish people still exist? Are prophecies real? Does it make sense for a God who claims to have created the universe to be outside of time and space?
Those questions among a few others.
Originally posted by Darfiuschristianity and logic are contradictory terms.
Not for the first time and most assuredly not for the last, I was not raised Christian and I have never gone to church on my own accord. I studied, researched, and found Christianity to be the most logical. I then asked God to come into my life with sincerity and He did, so I don't plan on turning back.
That must suck for you atheists who think "relig ...[text shortened]... emed the most logical? Why...that would mean there might be something there!
*head explodes*
If you are so logical, why have you not addressed the three point raised in my original post?
Originally posted by howardgeeWhy would God need a creator? If He created the universe, then clearly His powers and attributes are beyond our understanding. And if He created the universe (including space and TIME) then time is not a restriction for Him. It helps to think of Him as a spiritual being rather than physical. By the way, we already know the universe isn't infinite (Big Bang). No one invented the concept of God. He came and said Hey and some people listened.
Ok, here it is at last - I found time to briefly outline this truth.
GOD = An omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent entity who created the universe.
1. God created the universe, but what created God? If God has always been in existence, then why not simply accept that the Universe has always been in existence? Inventing the concept of "GOD" to exp ...[text shortened]... xistence and no reason to believe in him (except for similarly misguided peer pressure).
QED.
What is unnecessary evil? What's the difference between unnecessary evil and necessary evil? You do realize evil is the lack of good, right? And since God is all good, evil is the lack of God. If people actually knew God, they'd be incapable of evil, if only because it would shame them too much in front of God. And if He stopped evil, that would be taking away their free will. Which do you want, free will or no evil? Can't have both in this existence.
Actually, Moses (along with the Jewish people at the time) saw God, Job saw God, Daniel saw an angel from God, Abraham saw God, the apostles claimed to have walked with God (and died for that belief), and I and every other born-again claim to have a personal relationship with God. That's difficult to do with a non-existant being. And I felt no peer-pressure, as being a Christian isn't the cool thing to do at high school. If anything, I felt peer-pressure to live a life full of sin. That theory sucks.
And if He created the universe (including space and TIME) then time is not a restriction for Him.
Darfius you use this excuse a lot so let's put in back in the bag shall we?
Spacetime, as it's properly called, is a characteristic of the universe. Of course, you point this out in your post. Now you say that it is not sensible to ask what created god because he is "outside of time," but when you ask what created/caused the universe you make the same error.
To use the words of Taner Edis,""Asking about a time before the beginning of our spherical spacetime is like asking what lies north of the North Pole. There is no such thing."
Thus if time incontingency dispels the need for a cause to your god, then, by the same logic, it dispels the need for a cause to the universe.
Originally posted by telerionGod isn't in a time. He is a state of being. He is spiritual, therefore not adherent to the laws of physics. Time does not apply to the spiritual. Hence eternal life.
[b] And if He created the universe (including space and TIME) then time is not a restriction for Him.
Darfius you use this excuse a lot so let's put in back in the bag shall we?
Spacetime, as it's properly called, is a characteristic of the universe. Of course, you point this out in your post. Now you say that it is not sensible to ask what c ...[text shortened]... r a cause to your god, then, by the same logic, it dispels the need for a cause to the universe.[/b]
Originally posted by Darfius<Buzzer>
God isn't in a time. He is a state of being. He is spiritual, therefore not adherent to the laws of physics. Time does not apply to the spiritual. Hence eternal life.
Oh . . . sorry Darfius. Redundant jibberjabber was not what the judges were looking for. An intelligent response was the correct answer, an intelligent response.
Better like next time.
Originally posted by telerionI'm sorry that's your OPINION. Will you never cease to tout your opinion as fact?
<Buzzer>
Oh . . . sorry Darfius. Redundant jibberjabber was not what the judges were looking for. An intelligent response was the correct answer, an intelligent response.
Better like next time.
Tell you what, you tell me why God has to adhere to the laws of physics if He created the laws. Please.
Allow me to repost the major points of the last few posts here. Maybe then you will see why careful reading is important. Maybe this is why you are so hot and bothered for that smut apologetics you read?
Originally posted by Darfius
Why would God need a creator? . . . if He created the universe (including space and TIME) then time is not a restriction for Him.
Originally posted by Telerion
if time incontingency dispels the need for a cause to your god, then, by the same logic, it dispels the need for a cause to the universe.
Originally posted by Darfius
God isn't in a time. He is a state of being. He is spiritual, therefore not adherent to the laws of physics. Time does not apply to the spiritual. Hence eternal life.
summary following post by Telerion
You completely missed the point and totally failed to respond to my post.
Originally posted by Darfius
I'm sorry that's your OPINION.
Dear Holy Spirit,
I pray to you to open the eyes of your young child Darfius. He has strayed from your covering and is walking in the flesh. He has been blinded by the enemy, who has seduced Darfius with pride.
Oh BTW, if you do any research on my position here, you will discover that I do not think that a creator of the laws of physics has to adhere to them.
I refer to that sort of thinking as "god in a box." You are smart to recognize this and reject it.
Unfortunately, this cannot be said of your hero, Strobel. On his TV show, "Faith Under Fire," he found "constrained optimization" a convincing excuse for why the "designed" world seems to be "designed" so poorly. Unfortunately, the atheist guest apparently didn't remember his calculus because he didn't point out the short-coming of the argument.
BTW, if you are interested in why "constrained optimization" is a poor excuse. Search the debate forum for a thread started by yours truly on the subject a month or so ago.