Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeLOL, naw don't think so.
You miss my point Kelly.
Without evolution you simply wouldn't be here to sin in the first place. Even this conversation owes everything to us both having evolved into rational human beings. (See how I politely used 'us both' ).
Evolution enables rational thought, and rational thought enables the invention of a divine being for you to sin against.
I don't believe life started from non-life and evolved over time.
I do believe all life was started by God and evolved over time from established life forms.
I owe nothing evolution, but to the designer.
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeVery impressed with your use of the word "us" thank you. LOL
You miss my point Kelly.
Without evolution you simply wouldn't be here to sin in the first place. Even this conversation owes everything to us both having evolved into rational human beings. (See how I politely used 'us both' ).
Evolution enables rational thought, and rational thought enables the invention of a divine being for you to sin against.
Even if I were to buy into your view of evolution I'd still have to disagree.
Evolution isn't a guiding process pushing towards some end, its simply believed to be
natural selection with random mutations moving life forward. Nothing there to thank,
nothing is being done with any specific end in mind for our benefit or against us.
Originally posted by @kellyjay to Ghost of a DukeHas Ghost of a Duke told you he believes that evolution is "a guiding process pushing towards some end" or is it something you yourself have simply made up and are trying to attribute to him?
Evolution isn't a guiding process pushing towards some end, its simply believed to be
Originally posted by @kellyjayWith respect Kelly, I don't think you are fully understanding the 'random' element of evolution. It is not randomness itself that I believe takes life forward, but rather those 'successful random mutations' that occur. Bad mutations take us nowhere. Good mutations make us more successful as a species. (And the specific end you reference is the continuation of life, survival of our species. That's a pretty good 'end in mind' to me).
Very impressed with your use of the word "us" thank you. LOL
Even if I were to buy into your view of evolution I'd still have to disagree.
Evolution isn't a guiding process pushing towards some end, its simply believed to be
natural selection with random mutations moving life forward. Nothing there to thank,
nothing is being done with any specific end in mind for our benefit or against us.
Think of it this way. Before I play a final move in chess, I will invariably consider a host of other moves, some of them random. Why is this? Because randomness can throw up unexpected advantages. The same applies to evolution.
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeIt is an emotionless process, it isn't pleased with thanksgiving displeased with distain.
With respect Kelly, I don't think you are fully understanding the 'random' element of evolution. It is not randomness itself that I believe takes life forward, but rather those 'successful random mutations' that occur. Bad mutations take us nowhere. Good mutations make us more successful as a species. (And the specific end you reference is the conti ...[text shortened]... y is this? Because randomness can throw up unexpected advantages. The same applies to evolution.
Successful random is still just random without any direction looked for.
Bad mutations can take life to death, and there are many more of them than the so called
good ones. So the crap shoot of evolution is actually a belief that against the odds great
things were done, over and over. The continuation of life I credit the designer of life
which makes a lot more sense to me when you look at all of the various and sundry
mechanics that were supposed to have arrived and flourished over time by random
mutations.
2 edits
Originally posted by @kellyjayI think we are too far apart in our understanding of each other for me to bridge the gap. Maybe later, OK?
You are without a doubt a creature of culture, but sin is done by individuals. Even if you
are in a crowd all acting out, whatever the crowd is doing, if you join in, it is still your
actions, the crowd isn’t an excuse. The way you view the world is also going to be a
personal thing, the pressures of culture might be at play in molding your views, but t ...[text shortened]... only be bridged by Him
reaching to us, it will not be done by just our efforts reaching to Him.
Originally posted by @kellyjayWe are referencing huge time periods Kelly. Bad mutations run their course while successful mutations take us slowly forward through history. Of course bad mutations outnumber the good, but it is those rare good mutations that enable our survival.
It is an emotionless process, it isn't pleased with thanksgiving displeased with distain.
Successful random is still just random without any direction looked for.
Bad mutations can take life to death, and there are many more of them than the so called
good ones. So the crap shoot of evolution is actually a belief that against the odds great
things were ...[text shortened]... dry
mechanics that were supposed to have arrived and flourished over time by random
mutations.
And I agree fully that it is an emotionless process. Why is that a problem? Indeed, it's when we add emotion to the equation that we start to invent deities and the like.
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeHuge or long time periods do nothing to alter changes as they happen. It would have added nothing to the start of the process or during the process. If you have a long periods of time that only means that there are more opportunities for bad things to go wrong! Even if a single mutation adds something and doesn’t kill off the life form the environment now has more chances to with longer periods of time.
We are referencing huge time periods Kelly. Bad mutations run their course while successful mutations take us slowly forward through history. Of course bad mutations outnumber the good, but it is those rare good mutations that enable our survival.
And I agree fully that it is an emotionless process. Why is that a problem? Indeed, it's when we add emotion to the equation that we start to invent deities and the like.
Originally posted by @kellyjaySorry, can't talk now. I'm evolving. 🙂
Huge or long time periods do nothing to alter changes as they happen. It would have added nothing to the start of the process or during the process. If you have a long periods of time that only means that there are more opportunities for bad things to go wrong! Even if a single mutation adds something and doesn’t kill off the life form the environment now has more chances to with longer periods of time.
1 edit
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeSee long periods of time only means that there are more opportunities to miss what is important! 😉
Sorry, can't talk now. I'm evolving. 🙂
1 edit
Originally posted by @kellyjayDemonstrating the evolution of a sense of humor as a way to defuse potentially contentious situations. 🙂
See long periods of time only means that there are more opportunities to miss what is important! 😉
1 edit
Originally posted by @js357When you know that the other is not looking for any opportunities to accuse you it makes it easier for levity. 😉
Demonstrating the evolution of a sense of humor as a way to defuse potentially contentious situations. 🙂
I agree with you!
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyFortunately for you sir this was just a friendly.
I didn't accuse you of having subconscious resentment toward the God you consciously deny. I said we Christians see atheist displays of resentment and bitterness as a natural subconscious reaction. We 'see it' like that. No problem with you disagreeing.
The idea was, you presented what is a logical contradiction to you, but Christians don't see it ...[text shortened]... e and play a more conventional game. Against good players like you, I don't normally go for it.
😛