Originally posted by @karoly-aczelYou really misunderstood my comments to dive ("let's leave it at that"😉. This has nothing to do with taking others' posts seriously or not, but merely that some things are worth arguing over and others not.
The long and short of it is you must evaluate your own mind. You may be inspired by others but in the end if you dont formulate your own ideas about life, you WILL miss the point of spiritual thought.
Of course it is true what you say about everybody needing to get clarity in his/her own mind "about life", but it would be presumptous in the extreme to claim that nobody elses thinking has ever influenced you.
My own thoughts have been molded and reformed numerous times by other men far more brilliant than me, which have included Francis Collins, Eckhardt Tolle, and lately very much Ken Wilber. And it certainly is nothing to be ashamed about to say so.
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Originally posted by @karoly-aczelOf course he does not speak FOR me, but rather TO me.
no I haven't.
To be more precise I would like to know what you think. Does Wilber speak for you ?
If you are not familiar with his work, then it would be very difficult for me to summarise it in a RHP post.
It is about how individuals and societies grow. For example (and very simplistically) both as children and as people-groups we grow from thinking about, and being preoccupied with:
1. Me
2. Us
3. All of us.
Most Christians (and many other religions) get stuck in Phase 2, the Tribal group, i.e. my own kin.
Another important insight of his is that of the four major components of society (Art, Science, Morality and Religion) the former three have all evolved and grown over time, and only Religion seems to have remained stuck in the Middle Ages. His plea is for all religions to accept the new knowledge that we have gained in the past few hundred years, (from all spheres of the sciences and humanities) just as medical science no longer recommends leeches for healing.
Finally, I found it insightful that when he gauges a person's spirituality, he asks the question: What is it that is of ultimate concern?
-Removed-Quote: Aren't Christians all spiritual clones?
Perhaps you don't know what a clone is, or you would realise that when I said that your claim means : All Christians to be equal, this is exactly what a clone is - nothing more and nothing less.
Yes, I repeat, sometimes you don't make any sense at all.
But (and here I agree with karoly) I really don't believe this fact is worth arguing over, and I will not persue it further.
-Removed-No you didn't.
The fact that you THINK you did, is another senseless comment.
But here's the thing:
Most people who participate in this Forum sooner or later get a kind of feeling about the other participants - good, bad or indifferent.
I am a superficial and infrequent reader and contributor, but even so I have also developed personal affinities and aversions about several contributors - it is only natural.
My comments in passing about you were that your comments or at times fruitful and valuable - even interesting, but at other times, well, senseless.
That is my opinion. You can ponder on it or summarily reject it, your choice.
So I now, after further reflection, admit that I have made a mistake in acceding to your request to provide you with supporting evidence for this opinion of mine. None is needed, it is merely my assessment of divegeester.
So as far as I am concerned, this matter is closed. How about discussing spirituality further, or my (very, very condensed) references to Ken Wilber's work? (If interested, maybe Google him or go to integralspirituality.org.)
I'm more of a Caljust type. I see nothing wrong with someone submitting a personal opinion or observation without backing it up. The opinion can immediately be temporarily or permanently nullified by requesting proof. But the point of submitting an opinion or observation is to just be a human being. It's not like any of these threads are to be treated as formal debates. I think of this place more as a saloon where we sit at a round table and have discussion. Maybe, RHP forbid, someone can interject some humor (google the word if needed) into the conversation.
Originally posted by @caljustyou may be inspired by others but in the end anything short of your own convictions about life and spirituality will be found out.
You really misunderstood my comments to dive ("let's leave it at that"😉. This has nothing to do with taking others' posts seriously or not, but merely that some things are worth arguing over and others not.
Of course it is true what you say about everybody needing to get clarity in his/her own mind "about life", but it would be presumptous in the extrem ...[text shortened]... lle, and lately very much Ken Wilber. And it certainly is nothing to be ashamed about to say so.
Putting your own ideas into action will show them for what they are.
If you adhere to the commandments and understand the spirit of creation you're always on the right track