Originally posted by Jay JoosWhat is this? 20 questions?
Well how come after eating they then were embarrased about their nakedness....
According to the magic book (and I'm going by memory here) the consumption of the forbidden fruit removed the pair's innoncence. Whether it was the act of disobedience or some property of the fruit itself continues to be debated...some scholars suggest it is a bit of both. In any case, the removal of innocence introduced sin, and thusly, shame.
Originally posted by awalt08I was a Christian for most of my life. I have attended countless church services, dozens of retreats and many church related events. By far the best were the potluck breakfasts.
sure i'd be glad to.
but first i'd like to ask you if you have ever been to any kind of church service, retreat, or other event.
In any case, I have a background in the Christian tradition as both an adherant, and as a curious learner.
Originally posted by TheSkipperwell i dont know what your experiences were like, but i can tell you that through my experiences i no longer have any doubt in my mind that God is the only one that has every situation under control. and for those that dont know this i feel sorry for.
I was a Christian for most of my life. I have attended countless church services, dozens of retreats and many church related events. By far the best were the potluck breakfasts.
In any case, I have a background in the Christian tradition as both an adherant, and as a curious learner.
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Originally posted by TheSkipperYeah, so they should have been punished.
Yeah, so they should have been punished. How I am responsible for what Adam did is beyond me.
They were punished.
How I am responsible for what Adam did is beyond me.
You're not responsable for what Adam did, But you are responsable for what you did, and do.
JESUS, aka GOD, was born into the flesh as us and lived a sinless life in the flesh to show us it still is possible even after Adam and Eve sinned. Even thow HE knows none of us will do it because we don't have the love of GOD in us as we did once, or we should.
There was a couple of people who almost lived a sinless life, but no one did it, or could do it.
We are selfish, self-centered, and usually on a pity pot. "Woes me."
Skipper GOD love you. GOD made you and gave you life. And HE made you just the way you are and the way HE wanted you. GOD does not make junk. HE loves you and came to this earth in the flesh to save you from your sin against HIM even thow your not worthy. HE paid the price for you. Accept it.
Or do you really think you are just a big fluk of the big bang???
Skipper, It's very clear you are mad at GOD. That's ok. I have been plenty mad at HIM in the past and blamed HIM for a whole lot of crap.
Go to HIM and tell HIM. Swear at HIM if you wish, tell HIM how mad you are at HIM. It's the truth. Nothing wrong with the truth.
Pour out your heart to HIM, but be honest. And HE promises in HIS word HE will come to you and show you HE loves you.
Give it a try, What can it hurt??
Yeah,yeah, yeah, I know you kinda tried it before but it didn't seem to work. Guess there is no God, Just a big bang.
Try it again!
Originally posted by KingDavid403If I'm not responsible for what Adam did (which by the way is in direct contradiction with St. paul's writings), then am I born without sin?
[b]Yeah, so they should have been punished.
They were punished.
How I am responsible for what Adam did is beyond me.
You're not responsable for what Adam did, But you are responsable for what you did, and do.
JESUS, aka GOD, was born into the flesh as us and lived a sinless life in the flesh to show us it still is possible even aft ...[text shortened]... re but it didn't seem to work. Guess there is no God, Just a big bang.
Try it again![/b]
I appreciate your trying to "save" me. Thank you.
Originally posted by TheSkipperI can't save you. And I would not try. No point.
If I'm not responsible for what Adam did (which by the way is in direct contradiction with St. paul's writings), then am I born without sin?
I appreciate your trying to "save" me. Thank you.
But you can call it what you wish.
Yes you are born without sin.
But you are born with the desire to sin. Our flesh screams to sin.
This was not the case before.
Originally posted by awalt08Father: Hmm. I see my daughter entering the crack house. I really don't want her getting hooked on hard drugs. I told her drugs would mess up her life. Maybe I should intervene. Wait, no, that would interfere with her free will. I can't do that, or else I can't prove that she really loves me.
by not stopping Adam and Eve he was allowing them make their own decisions.
The stakes in the Adam and Eve story are much, much higher than the one above.
Two ignorant humans were about to make the worst mistake in human history: the original sin that tainted their entire race and caused billions of souls to be sent to hell. Why couldn't God intervene in this one, very important, instance?
Originally posted by SwissGambitwhen have you ever heard of God forcibly not allowing someone to try drugs?
Father: Hmm. I see my daughter entering the crack house. I really don't want her getting hooked on hard drugs. I told her drugs would mess up her life. Maybe I should intervene. Wait, no, that would interfere with her free will. I can't do that, or else I can't prove that she really loves me.
The stakes in the Adam and Eve story are much, much higher ...[text shortened]... souls to be sent to hell. Why couldn't God intervene in this one, very important, instance?
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI happen to agree with that, God is the only one that can make
[b] We sin not because we don't want to be with God
Yet (correct me if I am wrong) the consequence of sin is separation from God, which Christians believe is self inflicted and one's own choice. Many Christians also insist that everyone believes in God deep down and sinners choose to turn away from God.[/b]
Himself known to us and scripture makes the claim that He has. The
time will come when what is hidden will be put out into the open and
all the secrets of man will be on full display, except that which has
been washed by God's grace and mercy, thank God. Adam and Eve
hid from God after their sin, they tried to cover themselves up, they
both passed the blame on to someone else instead of admitting
they did wrong. We have been doing the same thing ever since,
trying to find ways to cover ourselves up, justify the way we are in the
face of what we know to be true.
Kelly
Originally posted by SwissGambitInteresting you should bring that up. Check out this curious little verse:
What was the crime? Curiosity?
Is it reasonable to expect Adam and Eve to obey on pain of death, when they'd never experienced death?
What if they'd eaten of the tree of life first, and then the tree of knowledge? What a pickle God would have found himself in.
Genesis 3:22
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--
This is interesting for a couple of reasons. 1. Most Christians assume that before the fall Adam and Eve were immortal, but it is actually never stated as such in the Bible. After all, what would eating of the Tree of Life have done for them if they were already immortal? 2. Finally, this verse confirms that the serpent did not deceive Eve as many Christians are so fond of saying, but told the truth! In Genesis 3:5 the serpent says the following: "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." God confirms that this is exactly what happened. In fact, the only deception going on is on God's part when he tells them that if they eat of the tree they shall "surely die", but they did not die, they went on to lead long lives and gave birth to children etc etc. Now, many Christians will try to save God's reputation by claiming he only meant that they no longer will live forever and will die "eventually", but as I have already pointed out, they were never intended to live forever in the first place.