You Will Know Them by Their Fruits.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
[b]I think equating good fruit and bad fruit to works/outward behavior is wrong.

Jesus goes out of His way to emphasize that He is speaking of "outward behavior":
“So then, you will know them by their fruits."

In doing so, Jesus makes it clear that He is speaking of "outward behavior". How else could you "know them by their fruits." Why are ...[text shortened]... missed this? It's as if you can't hear what He is saying. Why don't you accept His explanation?[/b]

<<Jesus goes out of His way to emphasize that He is speaking of "outward behavior":
“So then, you will know them by their fruits."

In doing so, Jesus makes it clear that He is speaking of "outward behavior". How else could you "know them by their fruits.">>

Because outward behavior is a manifestation of fruit - not the fruit itself.

Originally posted by @romans1009
So is your position then that a good tree (i.e. good person) will never commit a sinful act?

That's what Jesus is clearly saying.

It's as if you can't hear what He is saying. Why don't you accept His explanations?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
That's what Jesus is clearly saying.

It's as if you can't hear what He is saying. Why don't you accept His explanation?

I disagree, and your interpretation, imo, goes against not only much of the rest of the New Testament, but Jesus’ own statements elsewhere in the Gospels.

Originally posted by @romans1009
I disagree, and your interpretation, imo, goes against not only much of the rest of the New Testament, but Jesus’ own statements elsewhere in the Gospels.

What Jesus explains in those passages is consistent with the gospel that Jesus preached during His ministry.

For example:
John 8
"34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
" 31 ...If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
"36So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. "
" 35The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
51Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”

Evidently you refuse to accept it only because you believe in a different gospel. This is not unlike the scribes and Pharisees that Jesus repeatedly spoke against. They too could not hear what Jesus was saying because they believed something other than the gospel Jesus preached during His ministry.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
What Jesus explains in those passages is consistent with the gospel that Jesus preached during His ministry.

For example:
John 8
"34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
" 31 ...If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth wil ...[text shortened]... saying because they believed something other than the gospel Jesus preached during His ministry.

We’ve been over this before.

Being a “slave of sin” means sin has power over you, that sin is your “master.” Essentially it means you cannot help but sin - you have no choice but to respond to your carnal desires.

When God’s Holy Spirit indwells you after you accept Christ into your heart, sin no longer has that power over you. You now have a choice, which Paul describes in Galatians - walk in the Spirit or fulfil the lust of the flesh. You are freed from sin’s power over you. That doesn’t mean you’ll never sin again. It means you have the ability not to sin.

For one to believe your interpretation and your doctrine, one would have to believe that no one can commit a single sin and obtain salvation, remembering that Jesus upped the ante on Old Testament sins to include being angry with someone and to look on a woman with lust in your heart.

Since no one can live a sin-free life, no one can be saved. Yet, Jesus clearly says in the Gospels that people will be saved.

To believe your interpretation and doctrine, you would have to dismiss all of the Scripture in the Old and New Testaments that speaks of the New Covenant, John the Baptist’s identification of Jesus as “the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world,” Jesus’ own words where He said He was giving His life as a ransom, the Gospel accounts of His Resurrection, His command to His disciples re: the Great Commission, etc.

Then there is the other contradiction where you believe Jesus was only a man and yet He said He came down from heaven and identified Himself as God. So either He was God in the flesh or He was crazy for thinking and saying that. If the latter, why do you believe the sayings of a crazy person?

Yes, what He preached was/is a great way to live one’s life.

But don’t try to have it both ways - don’t claim that Jesus was only a man and had the knowledge and authority to say how one enters heaven.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Luke 6
43[b]“For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. 44“For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil ...[text shortened]... , outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.[/b]

John 6:61-64
Aware that His disciples were grumbling about this teaching, Jesus asked them, “Does this offend you? Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before? The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. However, there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him.)

Originally posted by @thinkofone

So you have confidence in yourself that you are not at all like the scribes and Pharisees. They blew it, but not you, boy!

What is the difference between why they condemned Him and why you condemn so much of the Gospel account ?

I don't see a nickel's worth of difference between their opposing Christ for speaking and acting as the Son of God and your's.

You don't think your nice phrase "the ministry of Jesus as He walked on the earth" conceals what is basically your disbelief, making it different from their unbelief?

How is your opposing Jesus Christ different ?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
That's what Jesus is clearly saying.

It's as if you can't hear what He is saying. Why don't you accept His explanations?

He wants a doctrine where he can serve two masters.

Originally posted by @romans1009
We’ve been over this before.

Being a “slave of sin” means sin has power over you, that sin is your “master.” Essentially it means you cannot help but sin - you have no choice but to respond to your carnal desires.

When God’s Holy Spirit indwells you after you accept Christ into your heart, sin no longer has that power over you. You now have a choic ...[text shortened]... laim that Jesus was only a man and had the knowledge and authority to say how one enters heaven.

Being a “slave of sin” means sin has power over you, that sin is your “master.” Essentially it means you cannot help but sin - you have no choice but to respond to your carnal desires.

When God’s Holy Spirit indwells you after you accept Christ into your heart, sin no longer has that power over you. You now have a choice, which Paul describes in Galatians - walk in the Spirit or fulfil the lust of the flesh. You are freed from sin’s power over you. That doesn’t mean you’ll never sin again. It means you have the ability not to sin.

For one to believe your interpretation and your doctrine, one would have to believe that no one can commit a single sin and obtain salvation, remembering that Jesus upped the ante on Old Testament sins to include being angry with someone and to look on a woman with lust in your heart.

Since no one can live a sin-free life, no one can be saved. Yet, Jesus clearly says in the Gospels that people will be saved.

This is the only part of your post that speaks to the matter at hand which are the "know them by their fruits" passages.

One of my points is that you believe in a gospel other than the one that Jesus preached during His ministry.

The crux of your argument seems to be the following which flies in the face of the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry:
"Since no one can live a sin-free life...".

Jesus never taught this. If you think that this is not true, then cite passages wherein Jesus actually said that "no one can live a sin-free life".

If you cannot do this, then acknowledge that you believe in a gospel other than the one that Jesus preached during His ministry.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
John 6:61-64
Aware that His disciples were grumbling about this teaching, Jesus asked them, “Does this offend you? Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before? The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. However, there are some of you who do not believe.” ...[text shortened]... (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him.)

Exactly: "The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life."

This ties directly to the passage that I cited earlier from John 8:
"34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
" 31 ...If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
"36So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. "
" 35The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
51Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”

Only those "who abide Jesus' word" will be made free from committing sin. This is the word that Jesus spoke in preaching His gospel during His ministry. They are "life". As such any one who "anyone keeps [His] word he will never see death". The passage you cited and the passage I cited from John 8 are consistent with each other in this regard as are the "know them by their fruits" passages .

Thanks for pointing it out.

Originally posted by @sonship
So you have confidence in yourself that you are not at all like the scribes and Pharisees. They blew it, but not you, boy!

What is the difference between why they condemned Him and why you condemn so much of the Gospel account ?

I don't see a nickel's worth of difference between their opposing Christ for speaking and acting as the Son of God a ...[text shortened]... lief, making it different from their unbelief?

How is your opposing Jesus Christ different ?

How is your opposing Jesus Christ different ?

1) I am advocating for the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.
2) The scribes and Pharisees were opposed to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

It's really simple.

Originally posted by @rajk999
He wants a doctrine where he can serve two masters.

Indeed. Which is exactly what the "know them by their fruits" passages and the passage I cited from John 8 speak against. Jesus said the same thing in several different ways and yet they still cannot hear what He is saying. They still don't accept His explanations.

"But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear".

There is no middle ground in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. It is a strict dichotomy:
“No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other." 

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Luke 6
43[b]“For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. 44“For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil ...[text shortened]... , outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.[/b]

Funny how you are unable to see that those who practice sexual immorality will not be found righteous.

You really are a duped child of Satan if you believe you know God.

Originally posted by @eladar
Funny how you are unable to see that those who practice sexual immorality will not be found righteous.

You really are a duped child of Satan if you believe you know God.

Dumbo the Elephant is back!

Originally posted by @eladar
Funny how you are unable to see that those who practice sexual immorality will not be found righteous.

You really are a duped child of Satan if you believe you know God.

Matthew 7
12“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this [IS] the Law and the Prophets.

Matthew 22
37Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”