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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. 03 Mar '18 20:52 / 1 edit
    Luke 6
    43“For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. 44“For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.

    Jesus unambiguously declares that He is speaking in strict dichotomy. One is either all "good" or "evil". That the good man brings forth only "good". That the evil man brings forth only "evil".

    Matthew 7
    19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

    From what I've seen, the vast majority of Christians believe that a "good tree" can bear "bad fruit". Yet Jesus clearly states that "there is no good tree which produces bad fruit". As such, any tree which bears "bad fruit" cannot bear "good fruit" and "is cut down and thrown into the fire".

    Evidently they don't believe Jesus. They believe a self-serving doctrine instead.

    Jesus issued the following warning which applies to them as well:
    Matthew 23
    27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28“So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
  2. Standard member karoly aczel
    Goin in dry bro
    03 Mar '18 21:37
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    Luke 6
    43[b]“For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit.
    44“For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil ...[text shortened]... too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
    Rise my Son


    Effin awesome OP
  3. Standard member karoly aczel
    Goin in dry bro
    03 Mar '18 21:39
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    Luke 6
    43[b]“For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit.
    44“For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil ...[text shortened]... too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
    Lawlessness indeed, gotta have rules
  4. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    03 Mar '18 21:40
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    Luke 6
    43[b]“For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit.
    44“For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil ...[text shortened]... too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
    .. Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13 KJV)
  5. Standard member karoly aczel
    Goin in dry bro
    03 Mar '18 21:48 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    [b].. Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13 KJV)[/b]
    Aye


    Agent R
  6. Subscriber Rajk999
    Enjoying
    03 Mar '18 22:09 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
    Aye


    Agent R
    Whats Agent R ?
    Something good I hope.
  7. Standard member karoly aczel
    Goin in dry bro
    03 Mar '18 23:45
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Whats Agent R ?
    Something good I hope.
    You are agent R

    The best, revered and favoured by all the kings
  8. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    03 Mar '18 23:59
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    Luke 6
    43[b]“For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit.
    44“For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil ...[text shortened]... , outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.[/b]
    What do you think Jesus meant by “good fruit?”

    The only reference to fruit as a metaphor in the Bible that I’m aware of (other than the passage you cited) is in Galatians, where Paul speaks of the “fruit of the Spirit.”

    “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

    Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”

    (Galatians 5:22-23)

    If those attributes identified as the fruit of the Spirit are considered good (and since we’re speaking of God’s indwelt Holy Spirit, how could they not be?) wouldn’t “bad fruit” be the opposite?

    Wouldn’t “bad fruit” be hatred, misery, strife, impatience, aggressiveness, badness, faithlessness, arrogance and pride, and lack of self control?

    You seem to be defining “good fruit” and “bad fruit” by a person’s works but we know that the Lord is not concerned with outward appearances but is concerned with the heart.

    “But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.”

    (1 Samuel 16:7)

    So, in my understanding of these verses, a good tree will produce the fruit of the Spirit identified in Galatians, while a bad tree will produce the opposite.

    The condition of one’s heart is manifested by his or her behavior. I don’t think it means that one who exhibits the fruit of the Spirit will never commit an outwardly sinful act. One can have a heart of love and patience and at times be angry and impatient. I think it means the dominant behavior of that person will reflect the fruit of their heart.

    If you know of another passage in the Bible where fruit is used as a metaphor, besides in Galatians 5 and the verses you cited, please post them. There may be others but I’m not aware of them.

    You’ve said in the past that Jesus’ teachings were deep and profound; that’s one reason I think it’s important to look below the surface on the good fruit and bad fruit passage.
  9. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    04 Mar '18 00:02
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    [b].. Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13 KJV)[/b]
    Ecclesiastes, of course, is from the Old Testament, which predates Jesus Christ’s crucifixion and Resurrection and God’s New Covenant with man by at least several hundred years.
  10. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    04 Mar '18 00:07
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    Luke 6
    43[b]“For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit.
    44“For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil ...[text shortened]... , outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.[/b]
    <<Jesus issued the following warning which applies to them as well:
    Matthew 23
    27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28“So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.>>

    This is again indicating that the Lord looks on and is concerned with one’s heart and why I think equating good fruit and bad fruit to works/outward behavior is wrong.
  11. 04 Mar '18 00:58
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    What do you think Jesus meant by “good fruit?”

    The only reference to fruit as a metaphor in the Bible that I’m aware of (other than the passage you cited) is in Galatians, where Paul speaks of the “fruit of the Spirit.”

    “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

    Meekness, temperance: against suc ...[text shortened]... reason I think it’s important to look below the surface on the good fruit and bad fruit passage.
    What do you think Jesus meant by “good fruit?”

    The only reference to fruit as a metaphor in the Bible that I’m aware of (other than the passage you cited) is in Galatians, where Paul speaks of the “fruit of the Spirit.”

    You seem to be defining “good fruit” and “bad fruit” by a person’s works but we know that the Lord is not concerned with outward appearances but is concerned with the heart.


    Jesus explains what He means by the metaphor right there in the passage I cited:
    "The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil"

    Why are you looking elsewhere for an explanation when He explains it himself? How could you have possibly missed this? I even put it in BOLD. It's really simple: A "good man" brings forth "good" and only "good" from his heart and an "evil man" brings forth "evil" and only "evil" from his heart. Righteousness would necessarily be "good". Sin would necessarily be "evil". It's really simple.

    I think it means the dominant behavior of that person will reflect the fruit of their heart.

    Jesus goes out of His way to emphasize that He is speaking in strict dichotomy:
    “For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit."

    In doing so, Jesus makes it clear that He is not merely speaking of "dominant behavior". Why are you looking elsewhere? How could you have possibly missed this? I even put it in BOLD.

    >>How could you have possibly missed all this? It's as if you can't hear what He is saying. Why don't you accept His explanations?
  12. 04 Mar '18 01:04
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    <<Jesus issued the following warning which applies to them as well:
    Matthew 23
    27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28“So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hyp ...[text shortened]... ne’s heart and why I think equating good fruit and bad fruit to works/outward behavior is wrong.
    I think equating good fruit and bad fruit to works/outward behavior is wrong.

    Jesus goes out of His way to emphasize that He is speaking of "outward behavior":
    “So then, you will know them by their fruits."

    In doing so, Jesus makes it clear that He is speaking of "outward behavior". How else could you "know them by their fruits." Why are you looking elsewhere? How could you have possibly missed this? I even put it in BOLD.

    >>How could you have possibly missed this? It's as if you can't hear what He is saying. Why don't you accept His explanation?
  13. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    04 Mar '18 01:05
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    [b]What do you think Jesus meant by “good fruit?”

    The only reference to fruit as a metaphor in the Bible that I’m aware of (other than the passage you cited) is in Galatians, where Paul speaks of the “fruit of the Spirit.”

    You seem to be defining “good fruit” and “bad fruit” by a person’s works but we know that the Lord is not concerned with outwar ...[text shortened]... ed all this? It's as if you can't hear what He is saying. Why don't you accept His explanations?
    So is your position then that a good tree (i.e. good person) will never commit a sinful act?
  14. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    04 Mar '18 01:06
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    [b]I think equating good fruit and bad fruit to works/outward behavior is wrong.

    Jesus goes out of His way to emphasize that He is speaking of "outward behavior":
    “So then, you will know them by their fruits."

    In doing so, Jesus makes it clear that He is speaking of "outward behavior". How else could you "know them by their fruits." Why are ...[text shortened]... missed this? It's as if you can't hear what He is saying. Why don't you accept His explanation?[/b]
    Outward behavior is a manifestation of one’s heart, no?
  15. Standard member Romans1009
    Cretinous Mutterings
    04 Mar '18 01:09
    Originally posted by @thinkofone
    [b]What do you think Jesus meant by “good fruit?”

    The only reference to fruit as a metaphor in the Bible that I’m aware of (other than the passage you cited) is in Galatians, where Paul speaks of the “fruit of the Spirit.”

    You seem to be defining “good fruit” and “bad fruit” by a person’s works but we know that the Lord is not concerned with outwar ...[text shortened]... ed all this? It's as if you can't hear what He is saying. Why don't you accept His explanations?
    <<"The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil">>

    How is this inconsistent with fruit being what is identified in Galatians?