Your Purpose in Life

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
That's not what I asked you. I asked you whether 'belief' is a choice? Yes or No?

I cannot simply choose to believe something that is not believable to me. If you think someone can, then perhaps you can give an example from your own life. Can you?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Actually a robot has no beliefs because it has no free will. So my analogy works perfectly.

What about your robot analogy? What's the application of that to what we are discussing?

Originally posted by FMF
I cannot simply choose to believe something that is not believable to me. If you think someone can, then perhaps you can give an example from your own life. Can you?

Of course you cannot decide that something is believable and unbelievable at the same time. You either decide that it is believable or you decide that it isn't.

Originally posted by FMF
What about your robot analogy? What's the application of that to what we are discussing?

I have already explained it to you. I suggest you go back and read what I wrote earlier. If you have specific questions about what I wrote you are welcome to ask them.

Originally posted by FMF
I think a world view is formed by something that is more akin to a process of realization and constant change. I can decide that a given piece of evidence is credible but I cannot decide that a piece of evidence ~ that I find incredible ~ is somehow credible regardless, and then willfully choose to believe it anyway.

Surely if you can decide that a given piece of evidence is credible, you can also decide that a given piece of evidence is not credible. You will either choose that it is credible or you will choose that it is not. You could change you mind at a later stage, but that is still your choice.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Surely if you can decide that a given piece of evidence is credible, you can also decide that a given piece of evidence is not credible. You will either choose that it is credible or you will choose that it is not. You could change you mind at a later stage, but that is still your choice.

It depends on the evidence. You presented evidence the other day pertaining to the veracity of your Christian beliefs on justice and evil that contended that murdering 6,000,000 people and looking at a woman lustfully were equally evil and deserved the exact same punishment. I found what you presented to me to be not credible. If, at some later stage in my life, I come to a realization that I do believe it after all, perhaps due to corroboration or substantiation of your claims, I will certainly tell you because I will want to let you know that I feel a sense of Christian fellowship with you and that I share the same beliefs as you have regarding justice and evil.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
I have already explained it to you. I suggest you go back and read what I wrote earlier. If you have specific questions about what I wrote you are welcome to ask them.

Yes, how do you think your robot analogy applies to me and to what I revealed about myself on page 12 of this thread?

Originally posted by FMF
It depends on the evidence. You presented evidence the other day pertaining to the veracity of your Christian beliefs on justice and evil that contended that murdering 6,000,000 people and looking at a woman lustfully were equally evil and deserved the exact same punishment. I found what you presented to me to be not credible. If, at some later stage in my life, ...[text shortened]... an fellowship with you and that I share the same beliefs as you have regarding justice and evil.

You choosing to believe that a system of justice (where a pedophile and a mass murderer can walk free and where an innocent law abiding citizen can be framed and receive the death penalty, where judges and juries can be bribed) is a more credible system of justice than the one I described is still your choice is it not?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Of course you cannot decide that something is believable and unbelievable at the same time. You either decide that it is believable or you decide that it isn't.

The key to this is can people choose to believe things that they find unbelievable. Christians often claim that immortality is simply a choice ~ one only has to choose to believe in Jesus and one is "saved" ~ and that Jesus wants everyone to be saved. This is of course nonsense. One cannot "choose" to believe in Jesus is there is no convincing reason to do so. Immortality and "salvation" surely are not hostage to some kind of Alice In Wonderland thought experiment.

Originally posted by FMF
Yes, how do you think your robot analogy applies to me and to what I revealed about myself on page 12 of this thread?

I'm sorry this thread is only 6 pages long. Fortune telling is not one of my strengths. 😛

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
You choosing to believe that a system of justice (where a pedophile and a mass murderer can walk free and where an innocent law abiding citizen can be framed and receive the death penalty, where judges and juries can be bribed) is a more credible system of justice than the one I described is still your choice is it not?

What I described is what justice is in reality, warts and all. You offered in return far fetched notion about a supernatural being that administers some sort of morally incoherent promise of torture regardless of the nature of wrongdoing, a notion which trampled all over and distorted the meanings of the words "fairness" and "justice". What I described is credible in so far as it exists and in so far it is applied, however imperfectly. You offered no reason to me to believe that yours exists and, on top of that, it held no moral credibility for me at all.

Originally posted by FMF
The key to this is can people choose to believe things that they find unbelievable. Christians often claim that immortality is simply a choice ~ one only has to choose to believe in Jesus and one is "saved" ~ and that Jesus wants everyone to be saved. This is of course nonsense. One cannot "choose" to believe in Jesus is there is no convincing reason to do so. I ...[text shortened]... y and "salvation" surely are not hostage to some kind of Alice In Wonderland thought experiment.

If believe if not a choice, why do some people find the evidence of Jesus convincing and other people don't?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
I'm sorry this thread is only 6 pages long. Fortune telling is not one of my strengths. 😛

On page 3 you asked me directly "You would much rather be a robot?" What is the relevance or application of this to me and what does it have to do about what I have said about what I perceive to be the purposes of my life?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If believe if not a choice, why do some people find the evidence of Jesus convincing and other people don't?

This has no bearing on the fact that I find it to be unbelievable. If you want to ask people who find the evidence of Jesus convincing, then why not just ask them.

Originally posted by FMF
What I described is what justice is in reality, warts and all. You offered in return far fetched notion about a supernatural being that administers some sort of morally incoherent promise of torture regardless of the nature of wrongdoing, a notion which trampled all over and distorted the meanings of the words "fairness" and "justice". What I described is credib ...[text shortened]... me to believe that yours exists and, on top of that, it held no moral credibility for me at all.

But you are the one that decides what is morally credible are you not? On what objective basis can you claim that your view of justice is better than mine if you don't believe in a universally correct justice system?