Originally posted by FetchmyjunkHow can someone "choose" to believe something they don't believe exists? Your statement here is completely unscriptural. The bible talks about faith, not "choosing". This notion you have that all those who are in hell have "chosen" to be there, sits alongside the most ridiculous unscriptural nonsense I've seen written by Christians in this forum.
If everyone were programmed to believe in God, they would have no free will to choose for themselves. I think God created us for the purpose of love. Without free will we wouldn't be able to love God.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkThis sounds awfully convoluted. Why should I believe any of this? What's it got to do with people being "programmed"? If there were evidence of God's existence and evidence of his instructions (or will) then people could choose whether to obey the instructions or not. What you are describing sounds Orwellian or Kafkaeque. What you are describing sounds like it has a nonsensical, tyrannical conundrum or confidence trick at its very heart and not "love" at all.
If everyone were programmed to believe in God, they would have no free will to choose for themselves. I think God created us for the purpose of love. Without free will we wouldn't be able to love God.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkIt isn't believable. I can't choose to believe it. If you honestly think that the "fair" punishment for me not believing in the "credibility" of same things as you is for me to be tortured for eternity and that my lack of belief is equally as evil as murdering millions of people, then I think your entire philosophy is intellectually and spiritually shambolic ~ essentially beyond parody, in fact. The very idea that one might be required to "choose" to believe it for fear of being tortured is preposterous.
And that is your choice is it not? You choose not to believe the revelation of God as described in the Bible. What makes you think that your idea of 'credible' is better than mine if there is no universal truth?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI don't see any "revelation of God" in the Bible. What I see is extensive texts charting ancient Hebrew mythology and then some texts towards the end charting the development of a breakaway religion. I don't see any "revelation of God" in the Koran or in the Vedas either.
You choose not to believe the revelation of God as described in the Bible.
Originally posted by divegeesterThere is the Bible and the historical accounts of Jesus. As well as countless testimonies of believers.
What "evidence of Jesus" do you think there is that an unbeliever should examine in order to "choose" to believe?
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI remember you repeatedly ignoring requests for examples in the past. I think your question is one if your ripcord questions. Give me some examples of what you mean by "universal truths" and I will tell you if i believe in anything similar.
You know exactly what I mean. I have given plenty of examples in the past.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkWe can hardly call the Bible "evidence". To an unbeliever it is just a book claiming that God exists. A DC Comic is just a book claiming that Superman exists.
There is the Bible and the historical accounts of Jesus. As well as countless testimonies of believers.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Similarly with Christians testimonies, these are people, like you and I perhaps, claiming that God exists. This is not evidence.
But now I see you have switch to faith. So which is it, evidence or faith?
Originally posted by FMFOk tell me this: Can someone make a wrong choice? Or are all choices right? How do you decide whether a choice is right or wrong?
This sounds awfully convoluted. Why should I believe any of this? What's it got to do with people being "programmed"? If there were evidence of God's existence and evidence of his instructions (or will) then people could choose whether to obey the instructions or not. What you are describing sounds Orwellian or Kafkaeque. What you are describing sounds like it h ...[text shortened]... a nonsensical, tyrannical conundrum or confidence trick at its very heart and not "love" at all.
Do you think it is possible to love someone without a free will?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkYou haven't proposed a system of justice. You have shared some bizarre notions involving grotesquely violent "consequences" and baffling unfairness and simply appeneded the words "perfect" and "real" and "fair" to them as if doing so affects the nature of the ideological nightmare you describe.
So you don't believe that your view of justice is correct and my view is incorrect?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkInstead of asking more dumb questions, why don't you answer a few that have been put to you?
Ok tell me this: Can someone make a wrong choice? Or are all choices right? How do you decide whether a choice is right or wrong?
Do you think it is possible to love someone without a free will?