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  1. 09 Nov '17 02:44
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/07/the-guardian-view-on-saudi-arabia-a-slow-motion-coup

    " The Guardian view on Saudi Arabia: a slow-motion coup.
    There are legitimate questions about whether you can sweep out the
    Augean stables if you don’t have clean hands."

    "Yet it is by deed that power is known. By that measure, there’s only one
    person running Saudi Arabia: crown prince Mohammed bin Salman.
    If he ascends to the throne, the 33-year-old will have broken the grip
    of the older Sauds over the state the family’s patriarch founded.

    The crown prince, known as MbS, is a young, inexperienced, and belligerent man.
    His misguided foreign policy, which has backfired spectacularly in Yemen,
    Syria and Qatar, is testament to hasty and rash decision-making."

    "What the crown prince displays is a taste for autocratic means, free
    from the traditional collective decision-making of the Saudi elite."
  2. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    09 Nov '17 03:06
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/07/the-guardian-view-on-saudi-arabia-a-slow-motion-coup

    " The Guardian view on Saudi Arabia: a slow-motion coup.
    There are legitimate questions about whether you can sweep out the
    Augean stables if you don’t have clean hands."

    "Yet it is by deed that power is known. By that measure, there’s only ...[text shortened]... or autocratic means, free
    from the traditional collective decision-making of the Saudi elite."
    Adding to the chaos of his impetuous youth, he also seems to get on with Trump.
  3. 09 Nov '17 03:08
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    Adding to the chaos of his impetuous youth, he also seems to get on with Trump.
    US President Trump supports him because he seem eager to confront and fight Iran.
  4. Standard member shavixmironline
    Guppy poo
    09 Nov '17 06:02
    All the ingredients for a perfect storm are in place.

    Let the joy begin!
  5. Subscriber mchill
    cryptogram
    09 Nov '17 07:24 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/07/the-guardian-view-on-saudi-arabia-a-slow-motion-coup

    " The Guardian view on Saudi Arabia: a slow-motion coup.
    There are legitimate questions about whether you can sweep out the
    Augean stables if you don’t have clean hands."

    "Yet it is by deed that power is known. By that measure, there’s only ...[text shortened]... or autocratic means, free
    from the traditional collective decision-making of the Saudi elite."
    I'm not sure what to think of crown prince Mohammed bin Salman yet. He seems to want to modernize his country, and do away with the heavy influence of the clerics, on the other hand his dictatorial style is cause for concern. Too soon for me to judge.
  6. 09 Nov '17 10:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @mchill
    I'm not sure what to think of crown prince Mohammed bin Salman yet. He seems to want to modernize his country, and do away with the heavy influence of the clerics, on the other hand his dictatorial style is cause for concern. Too soon for me to judge.
    Allowing women to drive was a start... Sure he's not perfect (one brought up in such a spoiled environment would never be) but the prince is a reformer. I hope he marks the end of the woman hating, homophobic saudi Arabian theocracy.
  7. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    09 Nov '17 17:25
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    Allowing women to drive was a start... Sure he's not perfect (one brought up in such a spoiled environment would never be) but the prince is a reformer. I hope he marks the end of the woman hating, homophobic saudi Arabian theocracy.
    Good luck on that....
  8. 09 Nov '17 21:11
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka to Mchill
    Allowing women to drive was a start... Sure he's not perfect (one brought up in such a spoiled environment would never be) but the prince is a reformer. I hope he marks the end of the woman hating, homophobic saudi Arabian theocracy.
    "The prince (Mohammed bin Salman) is a reformer"
    --Ash

    Hitler was a 'reformer' in some ways, who challenged some traditional class bias in Germany.
    Many people in Yemen today would be unimpressed by Mohammed bin Salman's commitment to 'reform'.

    "I hope he marks the end of the woman hating, homophobic saudi Arabian theocracy."
    --Ash

    (Future King?) Mohammed bin Salman may soften some aspects of Saudi Arabia's Wahhabism,
    but I know of no evidence that he fundamentally opposes it. I know of no evidence that
    he will be any more tolerant than his predecessors of non-Sunni Muslims in the region.
    I don't foresee him as another Ataturk.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atat%C3%BCrk%27s_Reforms

    "Atatürk's Reforms (Turkish: Atatürk Devrimleri) were a series of political, legal, religious,
    cultural, social, and economic policy changes that were designed to convert the new
    Republic of Turkey into a secular, modern nation-state and implemented under the
    leadership of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk in accordance with Kemalist ideology."

    What' most alarming (for people outside Saudi Arabia) is Mohammed bin Salman's evident
    reckless zeal for military adventure and confrontation. Evidently, he aims to make Saudi Arabia
    the dominant military power in the region (with apparent US blessing), reducing Yemen,
    Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates to servile client states.
  9. 09 Nov '17 23:03
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    "The prince (Mohammed bin Salman) is a reformer"
    --Ash

    Hitler was a 'reformer' in some ways, who challenged some traditional class bias in Germany.
    Many people in Yemen today would be unimpressed by Mohammed bin Salman's commitment to 'reform'.

    "I hope he marks the end of the woman hating, homophobic saudi Arabian theocracy."
    --Ash

    (Future K ...[text shortened]... ng Yemen,
    Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates to servile client states.
    One can only hope.
  10. 09 Nov '17 23:38
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    One can only hope.
    Even if Mohammed bin Salman could become another Ataturk (who was not born into wealth and power),
    I note that Ataturk's secularized Turkey has oppressed minorities such as the Kurds.
  11. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    10 Nov '17 08:00
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Even if Mohammed bin Salman could become another Ataturk (who was not born into wealth and power),
    I note that Ataturk's secularized Turkey has oppressed minorities such as the Kurds.
    In context what Ataturk achieved was phenomenal.
    I'm sure he would disapprove of the direction Turkey is moving in now.
  12. 10 Nov '17 09:36
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    In context what Ataturk achieved was phenomenal.
    I'm sure he would disapprove of the direction Turkey is moving in now.
    I was in Turkey just before the failed coup. I'm glad I got to see it before it became unsafe. Istanbul really is the most amazing city.