Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 27 Jul '17 13:24 / 1 edit
    http://godfatherpolitics.com/chuck-schumer-claims-capitalism-has-failed-wrong/

    That's right everyone. Dim leader Chuck Schumer has declared capitalism is dead. All our hopes now depend on centralized planning, with him at the helm, of course.

    Our hopes and dreams rest in neo-Marxism it seems.

    Yay!
  2. Subscriber mchill
    cryptogram
    27 Jul '17 14:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @whodey
    http://godfatherpolitics.com/chuck-schumer-claims-capitalism-has-failed-wrong/

    That's right everyone. Dim leader Chuck Schumer has declared capitalism is dead. All our hopes now depend on centralized planning, with him at the helm, of course.

    Our hopes and dreams rest in neo-Marxism it seems.

    Yay!
    Whodey, it would be nice if you would get things right at least once in awhile. This is actually what Chuck Schumer said:

    “The old Adam Smith idea of competition, it’s gone,” said Schumer to ABC’s George Stephanopoulos in a Sunday-aired interview for This Week. “Vulture capitalism” was now the order of the day, he said.

    The message was that the American brand of capitalism that so heavily favors the super rich was not sustainable, and he's correct. The continued transfer of wealth from the working class to the ultra rich will eventually break down. This is very different than saying "capitalism has failed"

    You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you??
  3. Standard member HandyAndy
    Non sum qualis eram
    27 Jul '17 14:38
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Whodey, it would be nice if you would get things right at least once in awhile. This is actually what Chuck Schumer said:

    “The old Adam Smith idea of competition, it’s gone,” said Schumer to ABC’s George Stephanopoulos in a Sunday-aired interview for This Week. “Vulture capitalism” was now the order of the day, he said.

    The message was that the Americ ...[text shortened]... than saying "capitalism has failed"

    You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you??
    His batteries are dead.
  4. Standard member checkbaiter
    By God's Grace
    27 Jul '17 14:58
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Whodey, it would be nice if you would get things right at least once in awhile. This is actually what Chuck Schumer said:

    “The old Adam Smith idea of competition, it’s gone,” said Schumer to ABC’s George Stephanopoulos in a Sunday-aired interview for This Week. “Vulture capitalism” was now the order of the day, he said.

    The message was that the Americ ...[text shortened]... than saying "capitalism has failed"

    You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you??
    That is your and Chuck U Schumer's opinion. And you know what they say about opinions, right?
  5. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    27 Jul '17 16:15
    Originally posted by @checkbaiter
    That is your and Chuck U Schumer's opinion. And you know what they say about opinions, right?
    Yeah, whodey never met a quote that he can't twist and mangle to fit his own twisted and mangled agenda.
  6. 27 Jul '17 18:19
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Whodey, it would be nice if you would get things right at least once in awhile. This is actually what Chuck Schumer said:

    “The old Adam Smith idea of competition, it’s gone,” said Schumer to ABC’s George Stephanopoulos in a Sunday-aired interview for This Week. “Vulture capitalism” was now the order of the day, he said.

    The message was that the Americ ...[text shortened]... than saying "capitalism has failed"

    You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you??
    Then break it down for us, what has changed since you seem to have all the answers.
  7. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    27 Jul '17 22:33
    Originally posted by @checkbaiter
    That is your and Chuck U Schumer's opinion. And you know what they say about opinions, right?
    Yes, you're an arse whole, if all your opinions amount to opening your mouth to let the stale air rise up from your bowel to emanate out of your upper orifice...
  8. 27 Jul '17 22:33
    Originally posted by @mchill
    Whodey, it would be nice if you would get things right at least once in awhile. This is actually what Chuck Schumer said:

    “The old Adam Smith idea of competition, it’s gone,” said Schumer to ABC’s George Stephanopoulos in a Sunday-aired interview for This Week. “Vulture capitalism” was now the order of the day, he said.

    The message was that the Americ ...[text shortened]... than saying "capitalism has failed"

    You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you??
    Earth to mchill.

    Why does a free market no longer work?
  9. 27 Jul '17 22:38
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Earth to mchill.

    Why does a free market no longer work?
    "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices." - Adam Smith
  10. 27 Jul '17 22:56
    Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
    "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices." - Adam Smith
    So merchants are now conspiring to screw the public due to the era of communication?
  11. 27 Jul '17 23:09
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Earth to mchill.

    Why does a free market no longer work?
    The concept of a free market is not bad, it is in its application that it is. This is something that is either seen or not and people are usually slow to see. For me it is being used by the " Vultures " to create divides while pertaining to create an even plating field. What that means ,in practice, is that the multi nationals demand the lowest cost base and yet demand the highest profits. Now on the face of it that seems fair enough but the damage is causes is phenomenal. It creates an imbalance whereby the already haves get more and those at the bottom are forced to " compete ". Note that the system works by destroying wealth, not creating it. The illusion is that wealth is being created, that is a lie. e.g A corporation boasts about its growth yet fails to point out how many factories that it has brought up and sold of and how many jobs went down the drain in the process. They sell the good news and ignore the bad. As I always say, " Corporations create poverty, Multi-nationals are the worst.
    Even those at the top attack each other creating a even more concentrated number of " elite". And that is what we see, And it is BAD, end of story.
  12. 28 Jul '17 11:37
    Originally posted by @jimmac
    The concept of a free market is not bad, it is in its application that it is. This is something that is either seen or not and people are usually slow to see. For me it is being used by the " Vultures " to create divides while pertaining to create an even plating field. What that means ,in practice, is that the multi nationals demand the lowest cost base and ...[text shortened]... even more concentrated number of " elite". And that is what we see, And it is BAD, end of story.
    And where do these corporations come from exactly?

    Who creates them? Who gives them special protections?

    Is an even playing field ivory tower ideology, or does it or can it exist?

    As for wealth, how is it created in your opinion?
  13. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    28 Jul '17 12:53 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @whodey
    And where do these corporations come from exactly?

    Who creates them? Who gives them special protections?

    Is an even playing field ivory tower ideology, or does it or can it exist?

    As for wealth, how is it created in your opinion?
    The goal of "free market" thinking is ostensibly to benefit the public or the general good by promoting competition.

    An even playing field can be constructed to a limited extent in many markets by means of intelligent regulation. The objective is to promote competition and prevent the emergence of monopolies. That in turn implies a concept of the general good, or the public good, which is more important than the sefish tendencies of vested interests.

    An unregulated or poorly regulated market will not provide a level playing field - in the sense of a competitive market - because it will inherently favour those who are already wealthy and powerful. allowing monopoly power to operate against fair competition.

    One problem with neoliberal economics is that it promotes the interests of the wealthy, of corporations and of monopolies at the expense of competition.

    Another aspect of the problem with neoliberal economics is that it replaces public services with unaccountable and costly substitutes under the false flag of competition, in markets where there cannot be effective competition and where prices cannot be set through the power of the customer. Access to basic necessities like housing, water, power, education is restricted for those unable to pay a market price, while the so called market price is itself established by monopoly powers without fair competition, effectively allowing private corporations to tax the public at will and pocket the excess profits.

    Even services retained for the benefit of the poor are wrecked by middle class flight, a process by which those with the ability to pay for alternatives (often heavily publicly subsidised) abandon the residual public options , which are grotesquely under funded and poorly managed. Instead of arguing in favour of proper public funding for services, the wealthy argue for public subsidy of private sector rivals, again treating the public purse as a cash cow to benefit the better off while working aggressively to withold services from the less affluent. This is further aggravated by blaming the poor for their own poverty, and racialised by ensuring that social spending benefits white rather than black citizens.

    It is a delusion to hope that Democrats of the Clinton / Third Way variety will offer anything other than neoliberal economic policies and Bill Clinton certainly demonstrated how a Democrat can outflank Republicans on their Right rather than their Left.

    What has failed in the USA is not free markets, which are a fantasy, but free market ideology and that is largely common ground for both the major political parties.
  14. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    28 Jul '17 13:10
    Originally posted by @checkbaiter
    That is your and Chuck U Schumer's opinion. And you know what they say about opinions, right?
    Usually wrong, in my opinion.
    In general, an opinion is a judgment, viewpoint, or statement that is not conclusive. It may deal with subjective matters in which there is no conclusive finding. What distinguishes fact from opinion is that facts are more likely to be verifiable, i.e. can be agreed to by the consensus of experts. An example is: "United States of America was involved in the Vietnam War" versus "United States of America was right to get involved in the Vietnam War". An opinion may be supported by facts and principles, in which case it becomes an argument. Different people may draw opposing conclusions (opinions) even if they agree on the same set of facts. Opinions rarely change without new arguments being presented. It can be reasoned that one opinion is better supported by the facts than another by analyzing the supporting arguments. In casual use, the term opinion may be the result of a person's perspective, understanding, particular feelings, beliefs, and desires.

    I certainly suggest that an opinion, to have any interest, ought to be supported or preceded by some level of active thought. A hasty pronounceent uttered without reflection may pass for an opinion but not for one that earns much respect. It is indeed democratic to ensure that all opinions are respected to a degree, in the sense that we are all entitled to contibute to discussions that affect us, but those expressing an opinion have some responsibility in exchange to consider matters before disrupting reasonable discussions with their arbitrary interventions.

    When we say people have a right to their opinion, or we are all entitled to our own opinion, that assumes that we have no interest in who might be right or wrong, well informed or ignorant, reasonable or tiresome, and it may even assume -as I suspect you imply - that it is not possible for any one opinion to be either better or worse than another. The right to be heard should be balanced by a responsibility to think before speaking. Otherwise, we are reduced to a gathering of babbling monkeys.
  15. 28 Jul '17 13:31
    Originally posted by @whodey
    And where do these corporations come from exactly?

    Who creates them? Who gives them special protections?

    Is an even playing field ivory tower ideology, or does it or can it exist?

    As for wealth, how is it created in your opinion?
    In my opinion,
    And where do these corporations come from exactly?
    We allowed ourselves to be duped into believing in them. They held a promise of a better future, but they lied.
    Who creates them?
    We all did.
    Who gives them special protections?
    People like you, because you believe in their lies. I know that is being presumptuous but I also include myself, though to a lesser degree. I simply do not know how to stop them.
    Is an even playing field ivory tower ideology,
    I personally have zero interest in trying to create a utopian " Level " playing field. I believe in reward for effort, etc etc but this capitalistic beast that has emerged is consuming everything in its path and is out of control.
    or does it or can it exist?
    No.
    As for wealth, how is it created in your opinion?
    Predominantly, By the work of ones hands. It was manual labour that created most of what we see today, or human ingenuity. The benefits of this has been stolen using automation/ productivity etc that has often been facilitated by the workers themselves. The working class has helped to end their own usefulness. I add that " working class " inc engineers, scientists etc etc. We have been taught to believe that improving things will work to benefit us all, that is a lie.

    This is at least MY opinion.

    This is a less educated answer than Finnegans, as it is how I feel it is, as it obviously is to me. He puts it in a more life context than I can.