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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    06 Jul '16 21:11
    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jul/06/fox-news-gretchen-carlson-roger-ailes-sexual-harassment

    "Fox News Boss Fired Anchor for Refusing Sexual Advances, Lawsuit Alleges"
    --Molly Redden and Sam Thielman (6 July 2016)

    Gretchen Carlson, a former anchorwoman for Fox News, has accused
    Roger Ailes, the CEO of Fox News, of terminating her after she refused
    to submit to his sexual advances, including demands for sexual intercourse.
    Gretchen Carlson, a blonde white woman, won the Miss America contest in 1989.

    "I think you and I should have had a sexual relationship a long time ago
    and then you'd be good and better and I'd be good and better."
    --attributed to Roger Ailes (what Gretchen Carlson claims he told her)

    Will the very politically conservative Gretchen Carlson become known as a feminist celebrity?




    "
  2. Joined
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    06 Jul '16 21:51
    Fox news guest so sexist even hannity "cringes" (but note that he doesn't deffend her)
    YouTube

    Fox News: We Hire Hot Women For Ratings
    YouTube

    Too Old To Figure Out Internet Porn? Try Fox News (VIDEO)
    YouTube

    normally in a case like this i would say i don't have enough information to form an opinion, but this is fox news we're talking about. the channel whose anchors asked in a sexual harassment seminar "are our bosses allowed to demand we wear skirts?" to which the answer was yes. on that note, fox news has many shows in which anchors are seated without a desk in front of them, with the female anchors constantly showing their legs.
  3. Subscriberkmax87
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    06 Jul '16 22:04
    Originally posted by Duchess64

    Will the very politically conservative Gretchen Carlson become known as a feminist celebrity?
    "
    Maybe if she's prepared to dump on Fox and confirm they are less a centre of journalism, but a megaphone for Rupert, the MSM might embrace her. But she risks walking the gauntlet of fallout from the right wing crazies she will have spurned and become a target of the idiocracy that genuinely believes every aspect of the birther issue.
  4. Zugzwang
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    06 Jul '16 22:263 edits
    Originally posted by kmax87
    Maybe if she's prepared to dump on Fox and confirm they are less a centre of journalism, but a megaphone for Rupert, the MSM might embrace her. But she risks walking the gauntlet of fallout from the right wing crazies she will have spurned and become a target of the idiocracy that genuinely believes every aspect of the birther issue.
    Given that she's suing Roger Ailes (Fox News's CEO), I expect that Gretchen Carlson
    already has 'burned her bridges' to Fox News.

    I would find it ironic that, in her current situation, Gretchen Carlson might find herself
    reaching out for support from the 'liberals' and feminists whom she apparently loathed.
    But litigation, in addition to politics, may help make for 'strange bedfellows'.
  5. Zugzwang
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    06 Jul '16 22:29
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    Fox news guest so sexist even hannity "cringes" (but note that he doesn't deffend her)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eB3OaN_izI

    Fox News: We Hire Hot Women For Ratings
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xULbLZoH--Q

    Too Old To Figure Out Internet Porn? Try Fox News (VIDEO)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf_YeHQXZys

    normally in a case like this i ...[text shortened]... e seated without a desk in front of them, with the female anchors constantly showing their legs.
    As I explained before, it's not illegal for an employer to have a dress code requiring a female
    employee to wear a skirt, though that employer should make a reasonable accommodation if she objects.

    I don't watch Fox News, so I am spared from the sight of its anchorwomen's legs.
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    06 Jul '16 22:35
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Given that she's suing Fox News, I expect that Gretchen Carlson already has 'burned her bridges' there.

    I would find it ironic that, in her current situation, Gretchen Carlson might find herself
    reaching out for support from the 'liberals' and feminists whom she apparently loathed.
    But litigation, in addition to politics, may help make for 'strange bedfellows'.
    Actually, rather interestingly, she's not suing Fox News but only Roger Ailes personally. The Complaint she filed in New Jersey Superior Court is here: http://documents.gawker.com/here-is-gretchen-carlson-s-sexual-harassment-complaint-1783200300

    I find it odd that she didn't sue the Corporation that Ailes was the head of as well as him personally. I would say that is highly unusual.
  7. Zugzwang
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    06 Jul '16 22:43
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Actually, rather interestingly, she's not suing Fox News but only Roger Ailes personally. The Complaint she filed in New Jersey Superior Court is here: http://documents.gawker.com/here-is-gretchen-carlson-s-sexual-harassment-complaint-1783200300

    I find it odd that she didn't sue the Corporation that Ailes was the head of as well as him personally. I would say that is highly unusual.
    Thanks for the factual correction. I have edited my earlier post on account of it.
  8. Subscriberkmax87
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    06 Jul '16 22:541 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Given that she's suing Roger Ailes (Fox News's CEO), I expect that Gretchen Carlson
    already has 'burned her bridges' to Fox News.

    I would find it ironic that, in her current situation, Gretchen Carlson might find herself
    reaching out for support from the 'liberals' and feminists whom she apparently loathed.
    But litigation, in addition to politics, may help make for 'strange bedfellows'.
    Given that she is suing Ailes personally she may yet want to remain within the GOP fold. I would love to be a neuron and evesdrop on her mental calculus at this moment.

    Much as she might want to throw Ailes and Fox under a bus, the thought of sucking it up and having to endure the smug/condescending I told you so's from the women on the view, might be more than she was willing to bare at this moment.
  9. Zugzwang
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    06 Jul '16 22:54
    Assuming that Gretchen Carlson's allegations are substantially true, I wonder what
    could have motivated Roger Ailes to act toward her as she accuses him of doing.

    It seems to me that Roger Ailes would have had much to lose by such blatant sexual harassment.
    What would he have had to gain? The pleasures or privileges of boasting about having
    made a former Miss America into his sexual conquest? How much would that be worth?

    So it seems to me that Roger Ailes felt powerful enough and secure enough within the
    apparently sexist corporate culture of Fox News to make his sexual demands upon even
    a comparatively privileged anchorwoman rather than, say, a powerless receptionist.
    Did he expect that Gretchen Carlson, a very conservative non-feminist woman, would
    never dare to act upon an issue of sexual harassment?

    I hope that Gretchen Carlson will begin to have more empathy for less privileged women
    who encounter sexual harassment in their workplaces.
  10. Zugzwang
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    06 Jul '16 22:57
    Originally posted by kmax87
    Given that she is suing Ailes personally she may yet want to remain within the GOP fold. I would love to be a neuron and evesdrop on her mental calculus at this moment.

    Much as she might want to throw Ailes and Fox under a bus, the thought of sucking it up and having to endure the smug/condescending I told you so's from the women on the view, might be more than she was willing to bare at this moment.
    I can only assume that Gretchen Carlson did not file her lawsuit while wishing to lose.
    So I assume that she will do whatever she can to advance her case inside or outside court.
  11. Subscriberkmax87
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    06 Jul '16 23:01
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Assuming that Gretchen Carlson's allegations are substantially true, I wonder what
    could have motivated Roger Ailes to act toward her as she accuses him of doing.

    It seems to me that Roger Ailes would have had much to lose by such blatant sexual harassment.
    What would he have had to gain? The pleasures or privileges of boasting about having
    made a ...[text shortened]... ave more empathy for less privileged women
    who encounter sexual harassment in their workplaces.
    Maybe the trope of the Hollywood casting couch is also substantially true, especially when you employ talking heads on their eye-candy appeal and not their journalistic credentials.
  12. Zugzwang
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    06 Jul '16 23:18
    Originally posted by kmax87
    Maybe the trope of the Hollywood casting couch is also substantially true, especially
    when you employ talking heads on their eye-candy appeal and not their journalistic credentials.
    Gretchen Carlson was a Miss America and holds a B.A. in sociology (not journalism) from Stanford.
    I wonder which of her qualifications helped her more to become an anchorwoman at Fox News.
    I wonder if, to attract more eyeballs, a male executive at Fox News ever wondered if it
    would be possible for anchorwomen to wear swimsuits while reading the teleprompter.

    I suspect that a powerful boss could have forced his attentions upon an attractive receptionist
    without her daring to resist, but that would not be much for him to boast about, would it?
    So I guess that Roger Ailes might have perceived Gretchen Carlson as a prize, his dream conquest.

    To be realistic, however, when a woman knows that she's being employed largely on
    account of her sex appeal, she should not be too surprised if that leads to other issues.
    I am not saying that it would be all her fault or that she should just put up with the consequences.
    But women know there are advantages and disadvantages attached to being perceived as sexy.
  13. Subscriberkmax87
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    06 Jul '16 23:36
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I wonder which of her qualifications helped her more to become an anchorwoman at Fox News.
    I wonder if, to attract more eyeballs, a male executive at Fox News ever wondered if it
    would be possible for anchorwomen to wear swimsuits while reading the teleprompter.
    There was a show on the Comedy Channel which Foxtel broadcast in Australia, called the Naked News. It took your concept a step further, or a layer backwards, depending on your perspective.

    At least they could boast that they hid nothing from their audience.
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    07 Jul '16 00:04
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    As I explained before, it's not illegal for an employer to have a dress code requiring a female
    employee to wear a skirt, though that employer should make a reasonable accommodation if she objects.

    I don't watch Fox News, so I am spared from the sight of its anchorwomen's legs.
    i didn't claim it was illegal, i said it was sexist.
  15. Zugzwang
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    08 Jul '16 00:12
    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/jul/07/gretchen-carlson-roger-ailes-fox-news-lawsuit-other-women

    "Gretchen Carlson's lawyer: 'deluge' of women have complaints about Ailes"
    --Sam Thielman (7 July 2016)

    Gretchen Carlson's lawyer says that many other women have come forward with
    similar complaints of being sexually harassed by Roger Ailes, the CEO of Fox News.

    "If you agree to have sex with me whenever I want I will add an extra hundred dollars a week (to her salary)."
    --attributed to Roger Ailes by Randi Harrison, who then was seeking employment.

    According to her account, before she could leave his office, Roger Ailes forced a hug upon her.
    Randi Harrison (who refused him) wondered how many women before her had been
    coerced into having sexual intercourse with Roger Ailes upon the couch in his office.

    In my view, if a powerful man does that once to a woman and gets away with it, then
    he likely will keep doing it to other women until someone finally attempts to stop him.
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