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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 20 Jun '15 19:39 / 1 edit
    So how long will the EU continue to prop up this failing country.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3131100/Greek-PM-predicts-nation-s-Grexit-cause-COLLAPSE-Europe-s-currency.html

    It has been going on for quite some time now. It seems to me that the EU is just pumping good money after bad into this country. Was that 2 billion pounds that Greece just received?
  2. 20 Jun '15 20:24
    Originally posted by Eladar
    So how long will the EU continue to prop up this failing country.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3131100/Greek-PM-predicts-nation-s-Grexit-cause-COLLAPSE-Europe-s-currency.html

    It has been going on for quite some time now. It seems to me that the EU is just pumping good money after bad into this country. Was that 2 billion pounds that Greece just received?
    The Greek government didn't "receive" anything. They got loans and are paying interest over them. Currently the Greek government is running a small budget surplus (unlike many of the EU governments who are lecturing them about fiscal policy) - all they need is money to replace maturing loans. They need the EU/IMF for this as the markets are not willing to lend them money.
  3. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    20 Jun '15 21:52
    The strength of the EU is that it supports member countries when in trouble.
    This is the EU working ... not failing.
  4. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    20 Jun '15 22:25 / 2 edits
    Kind of worth recalling that austerity entails dealing with the collapse of public revenues, caused by private sector speculation in an out of control financial system, by withdrawing from welfare spending in all its forms, sucking the life out of the economy, destroying prospects for a recovery, while continuing to pump public money into a corrupt banking system that cannot even now be trusted to operate within the boundaries of the law. Corporations are flush with cash they refuse to invest, private individuals are up to their necks in debt which is increasing still and nothing will shift our economies back into gear without public spending.

    Interesting to recall how a determination to balance budgets at the expense of public spending was such a feature of the German economy in 1930 - 32. The worse it got, the more firms went bankrupt, the more debt escalated, the more savagely they cut. Guess what happened next?
  5. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    21 Jun '15 07:27 / 1 edit
    I think the exit of Greece may actually be a good thing. (Well, as far as the UK is concerned). It will facilitate a renegotiation with the EU.
  6. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    21 Jun '15 09:18
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    I think the exit of Greece may actually be a good thing. (Well, as far as the UK is concerned). It will facilitate a renegotiation with the EU.
    Sure. European leaders will be really keen to assist Cameron's Quixotic tilt against a fantasy. and British voters enlightened by the Sun and the Times, the Daily Mail and the Telegraph, will be really interested in the fine details.
  7. Subscriber divegeester
    Nice suit...
    21 Jun '15 09:23
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    The strength of the EU is that it supports member countries when in trouble.
    This is the EU working ... not failing.
    But it is questionable whether Greece would be this position if it were not in the EU.

    The EU has been sold in as a requirement for economic stability and we've not seen much of that. Heath told the Brits they would all starve if we weren't in the EU.

    It's all nonsense; trade agreements can be set up within a European framework with out membears sharing the same currency.
  8. Subscriber divegeester
    Nice suit...
    21 Jun '15 09:25
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    I think the exit of Greece may actually be a good thing. (Well, as far as the UK is concerned). It will facilitate a renegotiation with the EU.
    Our renegotiation should be about EU law. We have our own currency and EU trading is healthy.
  9. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    21 Jun '15 09:59
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Our renegotiation should be about EU law. We have our own currency and EU trading is healthy.
    The UK has its own currency and Greece does not, so there is no reason to make comparisons.

    The Greeks are being screwed by the banks and the UK is on the side of the banks, so it matters to the extent that our government is owned by the banks.

    Our problem is not primarily the EU. Our problem is primarily the banks. Cameron does not wish to make that apparent.
  10. 21 Jun '15 15:00
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Our renegotiation should be about EU law. We have our own currency and EU trading is healthy.
    The only reason there is a "renegotiation" is the result of the Tories' dirty politics, using EU membership as a hostage to shake down other EU members. Basically they're saying: "look, we have a bunch of voters dumb enough to actually vote us out of the EU, so you better give us something..." In the end, Eurosceptic voters will end up losing if the UK does leave the EU, as the UK will end up having to agree to most EU agreements which will then be drafted by a much more Europe-friendly Commission and Parliament.
  11. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    21 Jun '15 16:19
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The only reason there is a "renegotiation" is the result of the Tories' dirty politics, using EU membership as a hostage to shake down other EU members. Basically they're saying: "look, we have a bunch of voters dumb enough to actually vote us out of the EU, so you better give us something..." In the end, Eurosceptic voters will end up losing if the UK ...[text shortened]... agreements which will then be drafted by a much more Europe-friendly Commission and Parliament.
    The EU needs the UK far more than the UK needs the EU. Perhaps this will only become apparent to you if we do end up leaving the EU and the price of pickled herring goes through the roof.
  12. Subscriber divegeester
    Nice suit...
    21 Jun '15 16:22
    Originally posted by finnegan
    The UK has its own currency and Greece does not, so there is no reason to make comparisons.
    I'm not making a comparison
  13. Subscriber divegeester
    Nice suit...
    21 Jun '15 16:23
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The only reason there is a "renegotiation" is the result of the Tories' dirty politics, using EU membership as a hostage to shake down other EU members. Basically they're saying: "look, we have a bunch of voters dumb enough to actually vote us out of the EU, so you better give us something..." In the end, Eurosceptic voters will end up losing if the UK ...[text shortened]... agreements which will then be drafted by a much more Europe-friendly Commission and Parliament.
    I'd vote out of EU law in a heartbeat.
  14. Subscriber divegeester
    Nice suit...
    21 Jun '15 16:24 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The only reason there is a "renegotiation" is the result of the Tories' dirty politics, using EU membership as a hostage to shake down other EU members. Basically they're saying: "look, we have a bunch of voters dumb enough to actually vote us out of the EU, so you better give us something..." In the end, Eurosceptic voters will end up losing if the UK ...[text shortened]... agreements which will then be drafted by a much more Europe-friendly Commission and Parliament.
    The UK won't have to agree to anything, I don't where you would get such an idea.
  15. Subscriber divegeester
    Nice suit...
    21 Jun '15 16:25
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    The EU needs the UK far more than the UK needs the EU. Perhaps this will only become apparent to you if we do end up leaving the EU and the price of pickled herring goes through the roof.
    Agreed.