@Metal-Brain
TOO. There you go again admitting you are a Putin Puppet, you can't help it, it is in your DNA. You really hate the US don't you.
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@sonhouse saidNo, I admitted you called me a Putin puppet. Nothing more.
@Metal-Brain
TOO. There you go again admitting you are a Putin Puppet, you can't help it, it is in your DNA. You really hate the US don't you.
Is Biden Putin's puppet?
https://rumble.com/v179uio-biden-admits-ukraine-will-have-to-cede-territory-to-russia.html
Is it comforting to know our money was wasted on this vain foolishness? Now you will have more inflation and get nothing in return. Happy?
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@metal-brain saidNo, but you and marauder are.
No, I admitted you called me a Putin puppet. Nothing more.
Is Biden Putin's puppet?
@shallow-blue saidLike Noam Chomsky:
No, but you and marauder are.
"Our prime concern should be to think through carefully what we can do to bring the criminal Russian invasion to a quick end and to save the Ukrainian victims from more horrors. There are, unfortunately, many who find heroic pronouncements to be more satisfying than this necessary task. Not a novelty in history, regrettably. As always, we should keep the prime issue clearly in mind, and act accordingly.
Turning to your comment, the final question is by far the most important one; I’ll return to the earlier ones.
There are, basically, two ways for this war to end: a negotiated diplomatic settlement or destruction of one or the other side, either quickly or in prolonged agony. It won’t be Russia that is destroyed. Uncontroversially, Russia has the capacity to obliterate Ukraine, and if Putin and his cohort are driven to the wall, in desperation they might use this capacity. That surely should be the expectation of those who portray Putin as a “madman” immersed in delusions of romantic nationalism and wild global aspirations.
That’s clearly an experiment that no one wants to undertake — at least no one who has the slightest concern for Ukrainians.
The qualification is unfortunately necessary. There are respected voices in the mainstream who simultaneously hold two views: (1) Putin is indeed a “deranged madman” who is capable of anything and might lash out wildly in revenge if backed to the wall; (2) “Ukraine must win. That is the only acceptable outcome.” We can help Ukraine defeat Russia, they say, by providing advanced military equipment and training, and backing Putin to the wall.
Those two positions can only be simultaneously held by people who care so little about the fate of Ukrainians [This is you, Kev and some others on this board-no1] that they are willing to try an experiment to see whether the “deranged madman” will slink away in defeat or will use the overwhelming force at his command to obliterate Ukraine. Either way, the advocates of these two views win. If Putin quietly accepts defeat, they win. If he obliterates Ukraine, they win: It will justify far harsher measures to punish Russia.
It is of no little interest that such willingness to play games with the lives and fate of Ukrainians receives high praise, and is even considered a noble and courageous stance. Perhaps other words might come to mind."
https://www.globalpolicyjournal.com/blog/28/04/2022/chomsky-our-priority-ukraine-should-be-saving-lives-not-punishing-russia
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@no1marauder saidOf course it will end in a negotiated settlement but the Ukrainians must be able to negotiate from a position near parity and Putin must be negotiating from a position that makes a reasonable settlement his only real option.
Like Noam Chomsky:
"Our prime concern should be to think through carefully what we can do to bring the criminal Russian invasion to a quick end and to save the Ukrainian victims from more horrors. There are, unfortunately, many who find heroic pronouncements to be more satisfying than this necessary task. Not a novelty in history, regrettably. As always, we should keep ...[text shortened]... journal.com/blog/28/04/2022/chomsky-our-priority-ukraine-should-be-saving-lives-not-punishing-russia
The first thing Putin and his supporters need to do is throw away his fantasy island wish list concerning Ukrainian neutrality and NATO retreat and negotiate a settlement that brings lasting peace and security for the remnant of Ukraine and the breakaway republics.
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@metal-brain saidI know that your educationally in the special needs category but if you pay attention to these Ukraine based threads you’ll see that I’ve been saying that Ukraine will have to cede territory in the Donbas region that he held prior to the most recent invasion. If you even read the post your commenting on you’d realise what a halfwitted liar you are.
You cannot deny reality anymore.
https://rumble.com/v179uio-biden-admits-ukraine-will-have-to-cede-territory-to-russia.html
Is it comforting to know our money was wasted on this vain foolishness?
Stop lying and stop being incredibly stupid.
The post that was quoted here has been removedNo you are an idiot and a liar.
From the post you commented on
“ Putin cannot be seen to gain anything he did not possess in January 2022 other than recognition of the de facto reality, which is an actual result for him. ”
That is ceding the Ukrainian territory he held prior to the invasion you halfwit.
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@no1marauder saidNoam Chomsky hasn't been relevant for decades.
Like Noam Chomsky:
By the way, Appeal To Authority is a rhetorical fault.
@kevcvs57 saidYour position is more extreme than Zelensky's initial offer:
Of course it will end in a negotiated settlement but the Ukrainians must be able to negotiate from a position near parity and Putin must be negotiating from a position that makes a reasonable settlement his only real option.
The first thing Putin and his supporters need to do is throw away his fantasy island wish list concerning Ukrainian neutrality and NATO retreat and neg ...[text shortened]... ement that brings lasting peace and security for the remnant of Ukraine and the breakaway republics.
"Ukraine could declare neutrality and offer security guarantees to Russia to secure peace “without delay,” President Volodymyr Zelensky said ahead of another planned round of talks — though he said only a face-to-face meeting with Russia’s leader could end the war.
While hinting at possible concessions in an interview with independent Russian media outlets, Zelensky stressed that Ukraine’s priority is ensuring its sovereignty and its “territorial integrity” — preventing Russia from carving up the country, something Ukraine and the West say could now be Moscow’s goal.
But, Zelensky added: “Security guarantees and neutrality, non-nuclear status of our state — we are ready to go for it.”"
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/ukraines-zelensky-to-offer-neutrality-declaration-to-russia-for-peace-without-delay
Apparently what you consider a "fantasy island wish list" is something the Ukraine is already ready to accept.
Why you think a continuation of the war will cause the Ukraine to negotiate from "near parity" when they are steadily losing ground and men is a puzzle.
@no1marauder said“Security guarantees” would be interpreted as the US guaranteeing Ukraine’s security, I hope you are not delusional enough to think Ukraine is going to accept a security guarantee from Putin 😂
Your position is more extreme than Zelensky's initial offer:
"Ukraine could declare neutrality and offer security guarantees to Russia to secure peace “without delay,” President Volodymyr Zelensky said ahead of another planned round of talks — though he said only a face-to-face meeting with Russia’s leader could end the war.
While hinting at possible concessions in ...[text shortened]... he Ukraine to negotiate from "near parity" when they are steadily losing ground and men is a puzzle.
Yawn shall I explain again that nato membership is not happening for Ukraine so if that is the neutrality that Putin requires then he de facto had that before he invaded Ukraine for a second time.
The freedom to seek EU membership and solid defence pacts with nations that can deter future Russian invasions and aggression is what Ukraine will want from any negotiations.
I think you’ll find Russia is losing men and materiel at a very steady rate as well and once Ukraine has decent air cover and the ability to out gun Russian artillery positions we’ll see how far Russia’s momentum will carry them westward.
Russian forces are also having to deal with partisan attacks the further they push into pro Kyiv territory a strategy the Ukrainians have been preparing since 2014, it seems they understand the intentions of Putin a bit better than you or Chomsky and Kissinger.
@shallow-blue saidIs he a "Putin puppet"? You do realize this wasn't an "Appeal to Authority" but a refutation of your simple minded assessment that anybody who dares question your maximalist goals of prolonged war against Russia must be sympathetic to Putin?
Noam Chomsky hasn't been relevant for decades.
By the way, Appeal To Authority is a rhetorical fault.
@kevcvs57 saidI assume "security guarantees" would mean third party commitments.
“Security guarantees” would be interpreted as the US guaranteeing Ukraine’s security, I hope you are not delusional enough to think Ukraine is going to accept a security guarantee from Putin 😂
Yawn shall I explain again that nato membership is not happening for Ukraine so if that is the neutrality that Putin requires then he de facto had that before he invaded Ukraine for a ...[text shortened]... 14, it seems they understand the intentions of Putin a bit better than you or Chomsky and Kissinger.
Russia already holds 20% of Ukraine's territory (as conceded by Zelensky last week) and the fighting in the Donbass is going badly for the defenders. Hoping more toys from the West will seriously affect this balance is delusional; Russia still maintains a massive advantage in men and equipment and are willing to use it to overwhelm resistance. It's quite a gamble to think that prolonged future fighting is going to aid Ukraine's bargaining position.
@no1marauder saidOf course it will effect the balance, these toys are what win ground in the 21st century, the only real advantage that Putin has now is the ability to outgun the Ukrainian forces and demolish Ukrainian cities full of civilians at will, but the air defence systems from the Germans and the precision guided longer range rocket systems coming from the US will seriously nullify that advantage.
I assume "security guarantees" would mean third party commitments.
Russia already holds 20% of Ukraine's territory (as conceded by Zelensky last week) and the fighting in the Donbass is going badly for the defenders. Hoping more toys from the West will seriously affect this balance is delusional; Russia still maintains a massive advantage in men and equipment and are w ...[text shortened]... uite a gamble to think that prolonged future fighting is going to aid Ukraine's bargaining position.
Then Putin will have to rely on his ground forces and we know how went the last time albeit they seem to have a much more cautious leadership than at the start of the war.