@kevcvs57 saidI think I'm going to stop responding to your endless parade of lies about my positions. They don't seem to stop no matter how many times they are corrected.
That’s because you’d then be able to point to the hypocrisy of No1s position. Can you imagine him demanding that the native populations subject to those violent invasions negotiate away land and sovereignty to the aggressor. No for No1s purposes the Ukrainian people must be less deserving of sovereignty than all those other peoples, this has to be a war of at least equal blame and not the blatant invasive aggression inflicted by a stronger state upon a weaker one.
Such tactics only show that your arguments are bereft of reason and logic.
@athousandyoung saidI don't see any inconsistencies. Obviously Russian occupation of the entirety of the Ukraine would trigger an insurgency that would be a severe drain on Russian military resources. Just as obviously, a prolonged war which resulted in such an occupation would be a catastrophe for Ukraine and its People.
Well I’ve tried comparing it with the British occupation of Ireland and the American invasion and occupation of Iraq but for some reason no other event in history is acceptable as an analogy. Ukraine is magically different and special for some unspecified reason.
But then I remembered YOU mentioning the idea before the invasion that it would be like the USSR in Afg ...[text shortened]... specifically designed for this approximate scenario for half a century…why not send them to Ukraine?
I thought I already explained the "why not send weapons to Ukraine" (at least without simultaneously pressing for realistic negotiations) i.e. the war is having immense negative effects on the Ukraine and the world.
@no1marauder saidNo your hypocrisy is a constant wart on the face of any argument you make. How else do you explain your support for every other victim of nationalistic aggression carried out for geopolitical reasons whilst insisting that Ukraine of all those victims should come to terms that benefit their aggressor.
I think I'm going to stop responding to your endless parade of lies about my positions. They don't seem to stop no matter how many times they are corrected.
Such tactics only show that your arguments are bereft of reason and logic.
Your suggesting that Ukraine should cede strategic land and it’s future sovereignty, basically the whole of Putin’s shopping list.
Stop lying about your pro Putin partisan position. Im being very honest about my pro Ukrainian / NATO position on this debate.
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@no1marauder saidAre you suggesting that Ukraines benefactors are not making it clear to Ukraine that they’d rather see a peaceful settlement ASAP?
I don't see any inconsistencies. Obviously Russian occupation of the entirety of the Ukraine would trigger an insurgency that would be a severe drain on Russian military resources. Just as obviously, a prolonged war which resulted in such an occupation would be a catastrophe for Ukraine and its People.
I thought I already explained the "why not send weapons to Ukraine" ...[text shortened]... ealistic negotiations) i.e. the war is having immense negative effects on the Ukraine and the world.
You cannot make a lasting peace with an advancing army whose artillery are reducing your cities to rubble. The Russian military are using the same playbook that they’ve used in Chechnya and Syria. The grown ups know how this works, you make a town or city uninhabitable by shelling then walk into the rubble.
That’s why the air defence systems and long range artillery being sent by Germany and the US are crucial to the peace process because once Putin realises he will have to rely on manpower and tanks to win this war he’ll know that he cannot win this war and out the goodness of his heart he will come to table and take what he can realistically get, Ukraine will maintain strategic access to the Black Sea and complete sovereignty going forward with assurances of defence pacts with any of its western neighbours who are willing to make that commitment, note I am not talking about nato membership, because I do not believe that is an option from the perspective of many nato countries, but absolutely no Russian veto on Ukraines domestic or foreign policy including its economic or military options.
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@no1marauder saidAs usual: you're being naive.
I'm not sure why you keep trying to compare this conventional war
This is not a conventional war. Your paymaster Putin doesn't even approve of you calling it a war at all. And in a sick, disgusting way he's right: it's not a war, it's a murder-and-rape campaign where the aggressor - that's the one whose side you are arguing on, by the way - does not stick to the rules of war.
When Russia was conquered by the Mongol Empire doing this kind of scorched earth stuff Moscow surrendered and accepted a role as local tax collector for the Great Khan and then over centuries were able to build up the strength to overthrow the imperialists from the East.
Is that what Kiev is supposed to do now?
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@athousandyoung said9-10% of its territory according to your video.
For another analogy, Finland.
Unfortunately I understand Finland lost land in that war permanently.
[youtube Forg Weap Finland Soviet War]-sbmgOiQWjc[/youtube]
Zelensky said today that Russia controls 20% of the Ukraine. https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-war-ukraine-president-russia-controls-about-20-per-cent-of-ukraine-says-volodymyr-zelensky-3033246
IF Ukraine keeps losing land, it will be fortunate if it can cut a deal as favorable as Finland did.
@no1marauder
Then what about the NEXT country Putin decides to attack? You ok with that one also? Negotiate a settlement, we just lost 20%, oh well, we have peace now.
And the next one after that, that one will be ok with you also?
@sonhouse saidHe is the no1mauraderGreat American Chicken.
@no1marauder
Then what about the NEXT country Putin decides to attack? You ok with that one also? Negotiate a settlement, we just lost 20%, oh well, we have peace now.
And the next one after that, that one will be ok with you also?
He just wants peace in our time regardless of the cost .
He cackles and cackles .
I wonder when these posters will admit that continuation of the war is a disaster for the Ukraine and the World.
Maybe after many more bodies, cities reduced to rubble and massive economic damage (including starvation in the 3rd World and recession in the West) they'll admit their emotion driven policy preferences led to a far worse situation than a negotiated settlement now would have.
But probably not; people driven by emotions rather than reason rarely possess self-analytical skills in any degree.
@no1marauder
What you don't seem to understand is the Russian military has orders to kill civilians and rape, the latest a one year old boy raped till he was dead. These are not the kind of people who will be satisfied with 10% of the land and go trotting back home.
You are naive if you think they would honor ANY agreement.