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  1. 17 Mar '17 02:34 / 3 edits
    This thread was motivated by Vivify's citing a defector's story to help beat the drums for war,
    though I should add that the defector herself did not advocate a war to liberate the DRPK.
    The idea for such a war came from the ethnocentric American Vivify.

    Many refugees or 'defectors' have heart-rending stories about atrocities to tell.
    Many, perhaps most, of these stories may be true, but not necessarily in every detail.
    Some details may be exaggerated and some stories may be fabricated.
    One should be cautious about these stories when used to help sell a war.

    A propaganda myth (big lie) used to sell the US war against Iraq to liberate
    Kuwait was the claim that Iraqi soldiers had murdered hundreds of babies by
    forcibly removing them from their incubators in Kuwait. This myth became
    the equivalent of British atrocity propaganda about German soldiers often
    raping nuns (or cutting off their hands or breasts) in Belgium in the First World War.

    http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy10.html

    "How PR Sold the War in the Persian Gulf"

    Every big media event needs what journalists and flacks alike refer to
    as "the hook." An ideal hook becomes the central element of a story that
    makes it newsworthy, evokes a strong emotional response, and sticks in
    the memory. In the case of the Gulf War, the "hook" was invented by Hill
    & Knowlton. In style, substance and mode of delivery, it bore an
    uncanny resemblance to England's World War I hearings that accused
    German soldiers of killing babies.

    On October 10, 1990, the Congressional Human Rights Caucus held a
    hearing on Capitol Hill which provided the first opportunity for formal
    presentations of Iraqi human rights violations. Outwardly, the hearing
    resembled an official congressional proceeding, but appearances were
    deceiving. In reality, the Human Rights Caucus, chaired by California
    Democrat Tom Lantos and Illinois Republican John Porter, was simply
    an association of politicians. Lantos and Porter were also co-chairs of
    the Congressional Human Rights Foundation, a legally separate entity
    that occupied free office space valued at $3,000 a year in Hill &
    Knowlton's Washington, DC office. Notwithstanding its congressional
    trappings, the Congressional Human Rights Caucus served as another
    Hill & Knowlton front group, which -- like all front groups -- used a noble-
    sounding name to disguise its true purpose.80

    Only a few astute observers noticed the hypocrisy in Hill & Knowlton's
    use of the term "human rights." One of those observers was John
    MacArthur, author of The Second Front, which remains the best book
    written about the manipulation of the news media during the Gulf War.
    In the fall of 1990, MacArthur reported, Hill & Knowlton's Washington
    switchboard was simultaneously fielding calls for the Human Rights
    Foundation and for "government representatives of Indonesia, another
    H&K client. Like H&K client Turkey, Indonesia is a practitioner of naked
    aggression, having seized ... the former Portuguese colony of East
    Timor in 1975. Since the annexation of East Timor, the Indonesian
    government has killed, by conservative estimate, about 100,000
    inhabitants of the region

    MacArthur also noticed another telling detail about the October 1990
    hearings: "The Human Rights Caucus is not a committee of congress,
    and therefore it is unencumbered by the legal accouterments that would
    make a witness hesitate before he or she lied. ... Lying under oath in
    front of a congressional committee is a crime; lying from under the cover
    of anonymity to a caucus is merely public relations."82

    In fact, the most emotionally moving testimony on October 10 came
    from a 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl, known only by her first name of Nayirah.
    According to the Caucus, Nayirah's full name was being kept
    confidential to prevent Iraqi reprisals against her family in occupied
    Kuwait. Sobbing, she described what she had seen with her own eyes in
    a hospital in Kuwait City. Her written testimony was passed out in a
    media kit prepared by Citizens for a Free Kuwait. "I volunteered at the al-
    Addan hospital," Nayirah said. "While I was there, I saw the Iraqi
    soldiers come into the hospital with guns, and go into the room where ...
    babies were in incubators. They took the babies out of the incubators,
    took the incubators, and left the babies on the cold floor to die."83

    Three months passed between Nayirah's testimony and the start of the
    war. During those months, the story of babies torn from their incubators
    was repeated over and over again. President Bush told the story. It was
    recited as fact in Congressional testimony, on TV and radio talk shows,
    and at the UN Security Council. "Of all the accusations made against
    the dictator," MacArthur observed, "none had more impact on American
    public opinion than the one about Iraqi soldiers removing 312 babies
    from their incubators and leaving them to die on the cold hospital floors
    of Kuwait City."84

    At the Human Rights Caucus, however, Hill & Knowlton and Congressman Lantos had
    failed to reveal that Nayirah was a member of the Kuwaiti Royal Family. Her father, in
    fact, was Saud Nasir al-Sabah, Kuwait's Ambassador to the US, who sat listening in the
    hearing room during her testimony. The Caucus also failed to reveal that H&K vice-
    president Lauri Fitz-Pegado had coached Nayirah in what even the Kuwaitis' own
    investigators later confirmed was false testimony.

    If Nayirah's outrageous lie had been exposed at the time it was told, it
    might have at least caused some in Congress and the news media to
    soberly reevaluate the extent to which they were being skillfully
    manipulated to support military action. Public opinion was deeply
    divided on Bush's Gulf policy. As late as December 1990, a New York
    Times/CBS News poll indicated that 48 percent of the American people
    wanted Bush to wait before taking any action if Iraq failed to withdraw
    from Kuwait by Bush's January 15 deadline.85 On January 12, the US
    Senate voted by a narrow, five-vote margin to support the Bush
    administration in a declaration of war. Given the narrowness of the vote,
    the babies-thrown-from-incubators story may have turned the tide in
    Bush's favor.

    Following the war, human rights investigators attempted to confirm
    Nayirah's story and could find no witnesses or other evidence to support
    it. Amnesty International, which had fallen for the story, was forced to
    issue an embarrassing retraction. Nayirah herself was unavailable for
    comment. "This is the first allegation I've had that she was the
    ambassador's daughter," said Human Rights Caucus co-chair John
    Porter. "Yes, I think people ... were entitled to know the source of her
    testimony." When journalists for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
    asked Nasir al-Sabah for permission to question Nayirah about her
    story, the ambassador angrily refused."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_(testimony)

    "The Nayirah testimony was a false testimony given before the
    Congressional Human Rights Caucus on October 10, 1990 by a 15-year-
    old girl who provided only her first name, Nayirah. The testimony was
    widely publicized, and was cited numerous times by United States
    senators and President George H.W. Bush in their rationale to back
    Kuwait in the Gulf War. In 1992, it was revealed that Nayirah's last name
    was al-Ṣabaḥ (Arabic: نيره الصباح‎‎ ) and that she was the daughter of Saud
    Al-Sabah, the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States. Furthermore, it
    was revealed that her testimony was organized as part of the Citizens
    for a Free Kuwait public relations campaign which was run by American
    Hill & Knowlton for the Kuwaiti government. Following this, al-Sabah's
    testimony has come to be regarded as a classic example of modern
    atrocity propaganda.[1][2]

    In her emotional testimony, Nayirah stated that after the Iraqi invasion of
    Kuwait she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers take babies out of incubators in
    a Kuwaiti hospital, take the incubators, and leave the babies to die."

    Pretending to be an ordinary Kuwaiti witness, the daughter of Kuwait's
    ambassador to the USA shamelessly lied in her testimony to the US Congress,
    fabricating an extreme atrocity story about invading Iraqi soldiers.
    That inflammatory false testimony was accepted by most Americans and
    influenced the USA to go to war (for Kuwait's royal family) against Iraq.

    Will most Americans be discerning enough to recognize when they are being played again?
  2. Standard member vivify
    rain
    17 Mar '17 03:20 / 1 edit
    I'm flattered to be on Duchess' mind that much. No one one else on this forum believes I'm advocating for war against N. Korea. Duchess just wants my attention.
  3. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    17 Mar '17 06:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    This thread was motivated by Vivify's citing a defector's story to help beat the drums for war,
    though I should add that the defector herself did not advocate a war to liberate the DRPK.
    The idea for such a war came from the ethnocentric American Vivify.

    Many refugees or 'defectors' have heart-rending stories about atrocities to tell.
    Many, perhaps m ...[text shortened]... Iraq.

    Will most Americans be discerning enough to recognize when they are being played again?
    My initial reaction to the murder of the UN male relative and the story about the defector, was the drumming up of sentiment to go to war.

    It seems Captain distraction has played out his bag of tricks and before his audience gets too restless, look! over there!....
  4. 17 Mar '17 10:07 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    I'm flattered to be on Duchess' mind that much. No one one else on this forum believes I'm advocating for war against N. Korea. Duchess just wants my attention.
    Any idiot knows what goes on in NK. He is your cookie cutter collectivist tyrant that is a dime a dozen in this world, only, he has nukes. Yipee!

    Let's see him use one. Somehow, I don't think even he is that crazy or stupid. Of course, if he does, that will solve the NK issue once and for all......and for about a 100 years or so, depending on radiation levels in NK after they are wiped off the map.

    NK is just one of those countries everyone should ignore and pretend does not exist.
  5. Subscriber mchill
    cryptogram
    17 Mar '17 14:48 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    This thread was motivated by Vivify's citing a defector's story to help beat the drums for war,
    though I should add that the defector herself did not advocate a war to liberate the DRPK.
    The idea for such a war came from the ethnocentric American Vivify.

    Many refugees or 'defectors' have heart-rending stories about atrocities to tell.
    Many, perhaps m ...[text shortened]... Iraq.

    Will most Americans be discerning enough to recognize when they are being played again?
    This thread was motivated by Vivify's citing a defector's story to help beat the drums for war, though I should add that the defector herself did not advocate a war to liberate the DRPK. The idea for such a war came from the ethnocentric American Vivify.


    Duchess, you're not writing enough text in your posts, they need to be much longer.
  6. 17 Mar '17 19:46 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by vivify
    I'm flattered to be on Duchess' mind that much. No one one else on this forum believes
    I'm advocating for war against N. Korea. Duchess just wants my attention.
    The nearly illiterate troll Vivify keeps showing his abysmal 'reading comprehension' or
    seriously misrepresenting what was written in order to keep attacking me.

    "Should N.K. [North Korea] be invaded to liberate its people? If so, how? If not, why?"
    --Vivify (to Ash)

    "I didn't necessarily mean the U.S. I meant, should there be some sort of effort
    (like something organized by the U.N.) to liberate the people of N. Korea?"
    --Vivify (to AThousandYoung)

    For the record, Vivify was the first writer in his thread "Yeonmi Park: Escaping N, Korea"
    *to suggest a possible war* (perhaps 'organized by the UN' ) against the DPRK (North Korea).

    "The idea for such a war came from the ethnocentric American Vivify."
    --Duchess64

    Contrary to Vivify's typical lie, I did *not* write that Vivify 'advocated' a war against the DPRK.
    I wrote that, in this forum, '*the idea* for such a war came from the ethnocentric American Vivify.'
    The nearly illiterate Vivify fails to comprehend the distinction between 'advocate' and coming up with an idea.
    I would add that the idea of starting a war to 'liberate' the DPRK is idiotic. I already have explained why.

    What I wrote about Vivify is absolutely true, and the troll Vivify's tireless lies cannot change that fact.
  7. 17 Mar '17 19:53 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by kmax87
    My initial reaction to the murder of the UN male relative and the story about the defector, was the drumming up of sentiment to go to war.
    It seems Captain distraction has played out his bag of tricks and before his audience gets too restless, look! over there!....
    In his thread 'Yeonmi Park: Escaping N. Korea", the ignorant American Vivify apparently
    completely swallowed an atrocity story. I don't know how much of that story is true.
    I do know that Yeonmi Park's known as a comparatively affluent 'celebrity defector' who
    has profited by selling her varying stories to sympathetic audiences. I know that her
    factual accuracy or honesty has been seriously questioned by other North Korean defectors
    or Western analysts (at least one of whom has condemned her as an outright liar).

    I never believed (though most Americans apparently did) the lying accusations that
    Iraqi soldiers had deliberately murdered hundreds of babies by forcibly removing them
    from incubators in a hospital in Kuwait. One reason was that I doubted that there would
    have been as many as 300+ babies hooked up to incubators in one hospital in Kuwait.
    Another reason was that I personally knew some Iraqis and I could not accept the US media's
    racist demonization of ordinary Iraqis as evil monsters who would enjoy killing babies.

    Lying trolls such as Whodey and Eladar like to create threads with atrocity stories blaming
    Muslims in order to incite fear and hatred of Muslims, perhaps paving the way for more wars against Muslims.

    As I wrote earlier, when President Trump becomes even more unpopular in US politics,
    he will become more tempted to start a war and hope to arouse the usual jingoistic American
    "Let's rally behind the flag and support the great leader in the White House!" response.

    So when the US media (again) begins running atrocity stories (from dubious sources)
    and beating the drums for war, watch out!