why do religious people want to run governments?

@wildgrass said
If you're power hungry, be a CEO or politician.

If you're religious, go to church or be a priest.

Why preach in Congress? I fundamentally don't understand the urge.

The same should be with public schools. School is for academics; not to learn or worship under any particular religion. Unless it is a private religious school; not a public school.

@KellyJay said
You really do believe a lot of things that you claim are proven by science.

I expressed no opinion one way or the other, I was asking you to back up your definition of 'truth', but as always you avoid giving any answer, even when presented with the possibility of a simple 'A' or 'B' response.

@Indonesia-Phil said
I expressed no opinion one way or the other, I was asking you to back up your definition of 'truth', but as always you avoid giving any answer, even when presented with the possibility of a simple 'A' or 'B' response.

Truth is that which reflects reality.

@KellyJay said
Truth is that which reflects reality.

Which says nothing at all, of course.

@Indonesia-Phil said
Which says nothing at all, of course.

It says that the truth will not contradict itself, so if we have a worldview that runs counter to reality, there will be issues with the worldview, not reality.

@KellyJay said
It says that the truth will not contradict itself, so if we have a worldview that runs counter to reality, there will be issues with the worldview, not reality.

As the Bible is full of contradictions, does that therefore mean it doesn't contain truth?

@Ghost-of-a-Duke said
As the Bible is full of contradictions, does that therefore mean it doesn't contain truth?

I won’t bother discussing this with you, as we have gone down this path before. You make a claim, I answer you, and then you disappear.

@KellyJay said
I won’t bother discussing this with you, as we have gone down this path before. You make a claim, I answer you, and then you disappear.

No. I highlight the many (blatantly obvious) contradictions in the Bible, and you put your fingers in your ears.

@KellyJay said
It says that the truth will not contradict itself, so if we have a worldview that runs counter to reality, there will be issues with the worldview, not reality.

The point I'm making, in case you still haven't got there, is that regardless of whether you regard A or B or neither as being the 'truth', truth is subjective. 'There is only one true god' is a matter of opinion, external influence, geographic location, and so on. Your 'truth' is not my 'truth', for which I am eternally grateful.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke said
No. I highlight the many (blatantly obvious) contradictions in the Bible, and you put your fingers in your ears.

He probably only takes them out to eat, and twice on Sundays.

@Indonesia-Phil said
The point I'm making, in case you still haven't got there, is that regardless of whether you regard A or B or neither as being the 'truth', truth is subjective. 'There is only one true god' is a matter of opinion, external influence, geographic location, and so on. Your 'truth' is not my 'truth', for which I am eternally grateful.

If you are looking for human agreement, I ask you why. Do you think that no matter what you or I believe, it will change anything at all that is real? You really need to get your eyes off others and look at what is around you, not judge truth by how you feel about another.

@KellyJay said
If you are looking for human agreement, I ask you why. Do you think that no matter what you or I believe, it will change anything at all that is real? You really need to get your eyes off others and look at what is around you, not judge truth by how you feel about another.

A hypothetical, suppose your god is the only real god. Then it does come down and takes every human to either heaven or hell or purgatory so the Earth is left without humans.
Will this god let Earth survive on it's own or would it just go, vaporize this place, we are starting over.

@KellyJay said
If you are looking for human agreement, I ask you why. Do you think that no matter what you or I believe, it will change anything at all that is real? You really need to get your eyes off others and look at what is around you, not judge truth by how you feel about another.

No, nothing you or I do, say or think will change 'reality', except in as much as we can influence events around us. You misunderstand me, I don't care what you believe, I feel nothing about you, any more than you care or feel anything about me, we only know each other via discourse on these forums. Nor am I 'judging' you for your beliefs, except in as much as they foster intolerance and discrimination, which for me are counter productive and damaging. To judge the world (as you do) via the mores and morals prevalent in the Middle East a couple of thousand years ago is inappropriate to the modern age. The world moves on, understanding moves on, science moves on, and to me, archaic religious beliefs, be they Christian, Muslim, Hindu or whatever, are clearly and catastrophically damaging. 'I'm right and you're wrong, and I'm going to kill you for it', know what I mean? The human race is divided by so many falsehoods, religion being just one of them. Tolerate, dear boy, try to understand that other people believe differently to you, and feel differently to you, and love differently to you, and that they are no more or less right or wrong than you are.

@Indonesia-Phil said
No, nothing you or I do, say or think will change 'reality', except in as much as we can influence events around us. You misunderstand me, I don't care what you believe, I feel nothing about you, any more than you care or feel anything about me, we only know each other via discourse on these forums. Nor am I 'judging' you for your beliefs, except in as much as they fos ...[text shortened]... to you, and love differently to you, and that they are no more or less right or wrong than you are.

How is your stance against intolerance not be at odds with not caring what others believe? You classify my beliefs as fostering intolerance because you are suggesting you clearly understand my beliefs, which I have to say, I doubt that entirely, as you judge my beliefs. You're full of contradictions.

@Indonesia-Phil said
'I'm right and you're wrong, and I'm going to kill you for it', know what I mean?

Only Islam promotes this doctrine, and if I remember correctly you were particularly tolerant of Islam because of your connection with people in a Muslim country. Your tolerance is what is misguided. Tolerating evil is not tolerance, but plain stupidity, and eventually leads to far greater problems.

Tolerance is good for petty matters, but for critical doctrines, tolerance is a failure. You cannot tolerate a religion that promotes death to unbelievers, or rape of women who are not Muslim. You can but it will be foolish.

There is no case where Christianity promotes intolerance. If it does then it does not follow the teachings of Christ. In the case of Islam if you promote intolerance and kill infidels, you are in fact keeping to the teaching and example of Mohammed.