Originally posted by BonfaFocusing only on deaths is conveniently simple. I don't know where your numbers came from, but according to the Australian government violent crimes have been steadily increasing in Australia since the 1996 implementation of new gun laws.
deaths caused by guns in US 11000ish
deaths caused by guns in AUS 60ish
guns = bad
http://www.aic.gov.au/topics/violence/stats/
By contrast in the US, as state after has state has implemented "shall issue" concealed handgun laws, and gun ownership has done nothing but expand, violent crime has decreased dramatically, reaching the lowest level in 2005.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm
It is of course very difficult to weed out all the factors required to do an apples to apples comparison, but I think it is one hell of a leap to simply state that more guns laws keep people safer.
Since only law abiding citizens obey gun laws, it is a fallacy to say that further gun laws will protect the law abiding public. No law, no matter how restrictive, is going to prevent violent people from committing violent crimes. Assault, rape, armed robbery and murder are already illegal, right? Yet they have and will continue.
The truth is we live in a dangerous world. And since we can't rely on governments to fully protect us, people must have the right and means with which to protect themselves.
If some violent criminal kicks in my door tonight, I'm going to be very glad that the pistol I have trained with is close at hand, and that I live in a country that recognizes my right to own and use it, because after all, I have a responsibility to protect my family that I take very seriously.
I'm sure that you would feel the same responsibility (assuming you have a family). What are you planning to do while you wait for the cops to arrive?
LOL LOL LOL
Its so funny reading all you non Americans so afraid of guns... maybe if you ever lived in a area where a big percentage of population owned guns you would realize how safer it is.
In my town In Wyoming its common to see people in wal mart or McDonald's to have a pistol on their side. Guns are not for killing people as you all say but its a sport for most of us to target practice, bear protection, or just to collect.
in my 25 years of living in Wyoming I never remember hearing of a shooting spree... unlike I did when I lived in FL (where the whole state is unprotected because hardly no one has guns and shootings almost everyday)
And another thing is when an antigun person moves to Wyoming from another state or country, it usually it takes less then a year and their enjoying the freedom and safety of owning guns and the new sport they taken up.
So when I see all this bashing of guns here; It just shows me how naive you are living in the city probably on the couch eating chips watching Hollywood movies of all the gun shootings etc etc...all while complaining about the good guys owning guns.
Originally posted by SleepyguyMy numbers came from the documentary bowling for columbine (quite obviiously the columbine high school shooting) by michael moore.
[b]Focusing only on deaths is conveniently simple. I don't know where your numbers came from, but according to the Australian government violent crimes have been steadily increasing in Australia since the 1996 implementation of new gun laws.
http://www.aic.gov.au/topics/violence/stats/
By contrast in the US, as state after has state has implemented "sh ...[text shortened]... gal, right? Yet they have and will continue.
The truth is we live in a dangerous world.
b]
In this he demostrated why guns are bad. The boys who went on the massacre at columbine, there dad's, obtained the gun legally. For protection? Sure...but when a child can just pick up a gun and bring it to school and shoot up everyone...I dont think thats "protection"
I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head but it was about 11,000 - 11,200 caused by gun deaths in US at the year of michael moores doco
http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm
FACT:In 2005 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,694 gun deaths in the U.S
in comparison to 1998...
FACT: Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:
373 people in Germany
151 people in Canada
57 people in Australia
19 people in Japan
54 people in England and Wales, and
11,789 people in the United States
I dont believe that this is coincidental and i don't believe by having a gun...a "tool" that can kill a man... is going to keep order and keep the US safe.
Originally posted by BonfaI don't trust those figures, especially if they came from master propagandist Michael Moore. Many times, the anti-gun crowd gins up the homicide figures by including deaths that occurred in the line of duty when police officers shoot suspects, when citizens use deadly force against criminals and suicide by firearm.
My numbers came from the documentary bowling for columbine (quite obviiously the columbine high school shooting) by michael moore.
In this he demostrated why guns are bad. The boys who went on the massacre at columbine, there dad's, obtained the gun legally. For protection? Sure...but when a child can just pick up a gun and bring it to school and shoot up eve ...[text shortened]... ving a gun...a "tool" that can kill a man... is going to keep order and keep the US safe.
Originally posted by flyUnitySo do you always carry your hobby in a holster?
In my town In Wyoming its common to see people in wal mart or McDonald's to have a pistol on their side. Guns are not for killing people as you all say but its a sport for most of us to target practice, bear protection, or just to collect.
I rarely bring my chess set to Walmart or McDonalds--except maybe on Sunday, when I wear my good bolo tie and fancy Budweiser belt buckle.
Originally posted by rbmorrisFlyUnity has a very good point and I like what he says.
So do you always carry your hobby in a holster?
I rarely bring my chess set to Walmart or McDonalds--except maybe on Sunday, when I wear my good bolo tie and fancy Budweiser belt buckle.
People who own guns don't own them so they can go out and shoot someone or even because they expect someone to point a gun and shoot at them.
Another classic case of people judging other people based on ignorance and the unknown.
There is no point in trying to explain things to people who have closed minds.
Originally posted by BonfaMichael Moore is a liar. If his "facts" are all you need to come to a conclusion then you and I will just have to disagree. The Illinois council against hand gun violence does not sway me either as they are obviously biased. This is why I linked to the Australian govt and the US FBI sites since I thought you would not be swayed by a link to the NRA or whatever.
My numbers came from the documentary bowling for columbine (quite obviiously the columbine high school shooting) by michael moore.
In this he demostrated why guns are bad. The boys who went on the massacre at columbine, there dad's, obtained the gun legally. For protection? Sure...but when a child can just pick up a gun and bring it to school and shoot up eve ...[text shortened]... ving a gun...a "tool" that can kill a man... is going to keep order and keep the US safe.
Also, I'm not talking about keeping the US safe. I'm talking about keeping myself and my family safe. If someone is trying to do harm to me or my family then having a "tool that can kill a man" can indeed be a big help in that regard. There are other tools of course, like knives, baseball bats, etc., but I'd rather have a gun because it's a more effective deterrent.
So, do you have a family? Do you feel it is your responsibility to protect them if need be? What do you plan to do while you wait for the police to arrive to protect them and you?
Originally posted by mlprior22 shotgun?
Just wondering how many guns people keep in their house/truck/office?
I'm guessing there are lots more in the U.S. than other countries, but you never know.
Personally, I own a Smith & Wesson .38 revolver and the kids each have a .22 shotgun (they don't have access to unless they are target shooting or hunting) and my husband has a few handguns (2 or 3) that he keeps at the office.
Originally posted by Bonfa57 people killed in Australia where pistols and rifles have been banned for years? Only the criminals have them in Australia so it's safe to assume most of those killed were law abiding citizens who had no way to protect themselves. At least with the high US numbers I can safely wager that some of those numbers were criminals that were properly dispatched after breaking in someones home.
My numbers came from the documentary bowling for columbine (quite obviiously the columbine high school shooting) by michael moore.
In this he demostrated why guns are bad. The boys who went on the massacre at columbine, there dad's, obtained the gun legally. For protection? Sure...but when a child can just pick up a gun and bring it to school and shoot up eve ...[text shortened]... ving a gun...a "tool" that can kill a man... is going to keep order and keep the US safe.
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Originally posted by der schwarze Ritterlol, of course those gun kills count
Many times, the anti-gun crowd gins up the homicide figures by including deaths that occurred in the line of duty when police officers shoot suspects, when citizens use deadly force against criminals and suicide by firearm.
Originally posted by SleepyguyThat is the problem, you and your family are saver, but the US don't.
I'm not talking about keeping the US safe. I'm talking about keeping myself and my family safe.
If nobody had a gun, the US would be saver, so you would be saver too.
Only because guns are allowed, you need one.