Originally posted by dfm65Sorry sister, I don't see any of those things in my post. Alert it if you want. One of us starting making personal comments about the other and it wasn't me.
Here's TOS 6- You agree not to: Post, email or otherwise make available any Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;
Since you insist that violations of the TOS must be punished, i guess you're in for a forum ban. See you later. Talk about being hoist on your own tiny petard...
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look, let's say we have a new user MaybeACheat. he quickly racks up a number of victories and zero or maybe one or two losses. he achieves a rating of 2400, say. marauder becomes alarmed and checks his games against his pack of engines. he finds a match of 85% - by extrapolation, about what you expect from a user with that rating, by marauder's own figures. is MaybeACheat a cheat who uses engine first choices for 85% of his moves and lesser but still good choices (or even his own moves) for the remaining 15%, or is he merely a talented but honest player of about the calibre of Ironman31 and other top players here? how could you tell? if you suspected, how could you make a reasonable case against him? this is all just a waste of time. could we have a champion thread killer in here please?
Originally posted by dfm65You are completely confused. No level of player would be expected to match up 85% with an engine in game after game; if they did it would be a prima facie case that they are an engine user. As stated in my thread which presented those figures, they are skewed to higher numbers BECAUSE some of the usernames who I have played were engines. No two strong players would select the same moves 85% of the time in a large number of games; I say it's quite impossible. And there are other "tells" as well in differences between how engines play and how humans play. I find it amusing that you state "anyone who really wants to use an engine and has an ounce of nous can make it undetectable, or so close to that it makes no difference" when you basically have no knowledge of how playchess.com detects cheats! Go to their FAQ and read Cheating Controls (I can't seem to copy it) and you might learn something.
look, let's say we have a new user MaybeACheat. he quickly racks up a number of victories and zero or maybe one or two losses. he achieves a rating of 2400, say. marauder becomes alarmed and checks his games against his pack of engines. he finds a match of 85% - by extrapolation, about what you expect from a user with that rating, by marauder's own figures. ...[text shortened]... st him? this is all just a waste of time. could we have a champion thread killer in here please?
Originally posted by no1marauderwell, just insert whatever number you'd expect a 2400 player to match up without engine assistance - the argument stands. sure, there are some moves that are regarded as characteristic 'engine' moves, but there's no reason to suppose that human players won't study engine games and learn the same techniques - in much the same way as the hypermodern style spread in popularity in the first half of the last century. as for playchess, the reason i don't know what they do is that i don't use the site. yes, i'll check it out, out of interest.
You are completely confused. No level of player would be expected to match up 85% with an engine in game after game; if they did it would be a prima facie case that they are an engine user. As stated in my thread which presented those figures, they are skewed to higher numbers BECAUSE some of the usernames who I have played were engines. No two ...[text shortened]... heir FAQ and read Cheating Controls (I can't seem to copy it) and you might learn something.
Originally posted by no1marauderNo disrespect to you, No1, but in the case of the smart cheaters, they use two chess programs. Yeah, they alternate the position between the two programs, and along with their own chess knowledge, become invincible. 🙁
You are completely confused. No level of player would be expected to match up 85% with an engine in game after game; if they did it would be a prima facie case that they are an engine user. As stated in my thread which presented those figures, they are skewed to higher numbers BECAUSE some of the usernames who I have played were engines. No two ...[text shortened]... heir FAQ and read Cheating Controls (I can't seem to copy it) and you might learn something.
As a person trained in this field I know all the tricks and how to catch these guys... but I lost out in the vote due to your persistant attack upon my character. I no longer hold that against you and do not wish to continue bad relationships. I'm just here to have fun playing chess. I really don't care anymore about who said what or who wants to take issue with things.
Good luck in your new venture.
Originally posted by arrakisI'm aware there are tricks and strategms that engine users can do to make themselves harder to detect; I've done considerable reading up on the matter since December. I've avoided mentioning these types of ideas in the Forums for obvious reasons. I still maintain that my statement to dfm is accurate and that if a username is consistently, game after game, matching up 85% with the first choice or equivalent of ANY engine (as some on this site are) then in all probability they are running an engine of some sort for the majority of their moves. It's obvious that no internet chess site can ever totally eliminate engine use, but an attempt should be made to at least catch blatant cheaters.
No disrespect to you, No1, but in the case of the smart cheaters, they use two chess programs. Yeah, they alternate the position between the two programs, and along with their own chess knowledge, become invincible. 🙁
As a person trained in this field I know all the tricks and how to catch these guys... but I lost out in the vote due to your persistant a ...[text shortened]... about who said what or who wants to take issue with things.
Good luck in your new venture.
I have no wish to recapitulate the events of the Game Mod vote; suffice to say I made no attacks on your character only on your judgment in the JW matter. As others who I believe were better qualified were not appointed to the Game Mods, at this point I would have no serious objection to ANY player with strong experience in both chess and the workings of engines being named to an expanded, 6 member Game Mod team. If that includes you in the judgment of the Site Admins and Dave Tebb, so be it. I want qualified people placed on the Game Mods, NOW, and since the only preferences that count in that matter are the individuals cited, it's up to them to make the call WHO (though they should take into account the preferences of members in the original vote) should be part of an effective team, but my two cents is that they HAVE an effective team.
Can I ask why, would anyone cheat, at a mental game? Online at that. Do we award a million bucks to Ironman at the end of the year? Do we get extra credit for being over 1500? "To thine own self be true"! WHATS THE POINT!!!!!!!!!! Why play at all using an engine? If someone beat me using a chess engine (GOD ALMIGHTY they wouldn't need it) what have they gained and why would I be worried? Jezzy weezzy it's a game people......
Originally posted by dfm65If I don't kill it...no one can.
look, let's say we have a new user MaybeACheat. he quickly racks up a number of victories and zero or maybe one or two losses. he achieves a rating of 2400, say. marauder becomes alarmed and checks his games against his pack of engines. he finds a match of 85% - by extrapolation, about what you expect from a user with that rating, by marauder's own figures. ...[text shortened]... st him? this is all just a waste of time. could we have a champion thread killer in here please?
Originally posted by dfm65If I don't kill it...no one can.
look, let's say we have a new user MaybeACheat. he quickly racks up a number of victories and zero or maybe one or two losses. he achieves a rating of 2400, say. marauder becomes alarmed and checks his games against his pack of engines. he finds a match of 85% - by extrapolation, about what you expect from a user with that rating, by marauder's own figures. ...[text shortened]... st him? this is all just a waste of time. could we have a champion thread killer in here please?
Originally posted by no1marauderI think as many people who cared would have seen it in Site Ideas, perhaps without all the extra nonsense that has cluttered this thread.
Obviously it was put in General to get the maximum response as this is the most used forum; the Forum Mods choose to leave it here even if you find the whole issue "ho-hum".
Anyway, apart from bringing David Tebb briefly into the debate, what has been achieved? Despite what David said I cannot believe that he is the only person who frequents the site that can be of any use as a Game Mod.
No.1 you're obviously passionate about this, Arrakis you have the past experience, can you two put your heads together and communicate your combined ideas to David Tebb and Russ and see if something can be done to improve the Game Mod function at RHP?
Originally posted by SirUlrichI sure hope that's a joke. Chessbase is'nt an engine, it's a database program. If you're on the gamemods with this uninformed knowledge, all chess it in trouble.
Now that I am officially a Game Mod, please PM any accusations to me. That way we can keep the forums for all the witty threads and everyone on RHP who owns either Chessbase or Fritz can be dealt with accordingly. . . . watch this space for updates
🙂
Originally posted by ExyPerhaps at some point you might add something useful to the discussion rather than concentrating on such unimportant details as to the "proper" forum for this thread. I can't accomplish anything on my own; it's not my site. I made some proposals and apparently a lot of people agree with me and a few don't. If the Site Admins don't want more Game Mods, I can't force them to add more. I have communicated my ideas in this thread and directly via PM to the Game Mods; if Arrakis or anybody else wants to do so, that's up to them.
I think as many people who cared would have seen it in Site Ideas, perhaps without all the extra nonsense that has cluttered this thread.
Anyway, apart from bringing David Tebb briefly into the debate, what has been achieved? Despite what David said I cannot believe that he is the only person who frequents the site that can be of any use as a Game Mod.
No ...[text shortened]... to David Tebb and Russ and see if something can be done to improve the Game Mod function at RHP?