Wut...?

Originally posted by yo its me
okay. Time I hit the hay anyway. Nice chatting with ya all this evening. I think Hoh got cold feet in the spirituality, just as well he was out matched with me 😉

You're far too retarded to debate in any meaningful way. I hope this is because you're 13 and not because you're unbelievably stupid. I'll be over to Spirituality to hand you your ass shortly.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
Am I capable of executing a person the hypothetical offender if they had killed my daughter? Assuming I knew them to be absolutely guilty beyond any shadow of a doubt, then, yes, I would be more than capable of ending their misbegotten life.

You know that most marriages do not survive the violent loss of a child right? My wife is a very strong ...[text shortened]... od person and your empathy is a credit to you. I, on the other hand, am not so charitable.

I'm really glad the society I live in has moved on from primitive views like this.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Sorry, but I have to jump in here.

If there IS a God, then you've already blown it, haven't you?

Why? Because you think you know the rules God plays by? Our Christian God, I assume you're Christian, is simply another invention of man to explain the unexplainable and both soothe and fan the flames of mans fear. What makes countless other Gods and Goddesses any less valid. How do you know that my prayers to Hecate are any less valid than your version of God? I think it a conceit that any of us presume to know the nature or mind of God, much less that a book full of ramblings, contradictions and inaccuracies can adequately define the expectations of God.

I'm willing accept that there could be a Supreme Being, a universal God. Given the vast expanse of the universe and our relatively insignificant part in its workings, I find it extremely unlikely that God really thinks much about us at all. Plus, it's been 2000 years since anyone heard from him.

I haven't blown anything.

Originally posted by Palynka
I'm really glad the society I live in has moved on from primitive views like this.

Nobody really gives a crap what you sardine snorters think anyway.

Still, rather than your usual one line tidbits of wisdom, care to share what you think should be done with violent criminals? Let's just focus on murderers to keep things tidy.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
Nobody really gives a crap what you sardine snorters think anyway.

Still, rather than your usual one line tidbits of wisdom, care to share what you think should be done with violent criminals? Let's just focus on murderers to keep things tidy.

Evidently, you do give a crap. Jail for a long period is good enough for me. I don't have any blood-lust to quench and I think society should show the example that such type of violence is not the norm and it is NEVER justice.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
You're far too retarded to debate in any meaningful way. I hope this is because you're 13 and not because you're unbelievably stupid. I'll be over to Spirituality to hand you your ass shortly.

I suspect we're the same age. If you really think you're up to the challange of discussing the existance of God, hoh, be my guest.

Originally posted by yo its me
I suspect we're the same age. If you really think you're up to the challange of discussing the existance of God, hoh, be my guest.

you can't prove, or disprove the existence of any god you can only believe or choose not to believe and there's nothing anyone can say to anyone to change their minds on the matter, it has to come from within.

Originally posted by trev33
you can't prove, or disprove the existence of any god you can only believe or choose not to believe and there's nothing anyone can say to anyone to change their minds on the matter, it has to come from within.

quite right. If hoh wants to disucss it, then I'm open to that. If he wants a debate on the merits of Berkleys theology then titleing the thread @yo it's me makes little sense to me.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
I'm not missing the point, but, you're certainly trying to cloud mine.

1. I abhor violent criminals, particularly those that abuse children.
2. I am a proponent of capital punishment as a consequence to committing such crimes.
3. I am willing to suffer the same consequences as I would hold others to.
4. Legally executing a violent offender s ...[text shortened]... hould befall you. I know myself and have no illusions as to what my reaction would be.

I'm with Hand.

There are two aspects to living in any societal group - rights, and responsibilities. Your rights (even those deemed 'basic human rights'😉 are bestowed on you by your ability to live up to your responsibilities within that society.

If you debate the fact that rights are defined by the society you live in, please redirect your attention to China, North Korea, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, the United States, the United Kingdom, and various other countries who have disparate ideas of privacy, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and various other 'basic human rights.'

There is no God - this part is directed at later posts. You have zero evidence, zero empirical data to claim your god is real. God is a human construct designed to lend authority to stupid rules - many of which involve subjugating women, people of different religions, and people of different races.

Your rights are earned, and your responsibilities are a legacy. You cannot deny one without denying the other. Society punishes those who deny the legacy. Refusal to accept societal rules results in the denial of your 'personal rights.'

All of this being said - all punishments are available. Castration, mutilation, maiming, torture, and the death penalty are all reasonable responses to crime. Criminals, by denying their responsibility to society, deny their rights. All punishment is available, and justifiable.

You sad types who believe that a rapist still deserves a reasonable and humane punishment are the people who allow such crimes to exist. You make it possible for paedophiles to get short sentences despite the fact that they have destroyed lives. You are criminals yourselves, because you enable crime.

Originally posted by st00p1dfac3
You sad types who believe that a rapist still deserves a reasonable and humane punishment are the people who allow such crimes to exist.

You're the sad type who fails to realize that societies where violent punishment doesn't exist are the ones who have less of such crimes.

Go back to your cave.

Originally posted by Palynka
You're the sad type who fails to realize that societies where violent punishment doesn't exist are the ones who have less of such crimes.

Go back to your cave.

I suppose it would be too much trouble for you to deliver some statistics that back up this claim. The US, for the most part does not have corporal punishment and death sentences are increasingly rare. Would you catagorize the US as having a low violent crime rate? If you do you're an idiot.

Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
I suppose it would be too much trouble for you to deliver some statistics that back up this claim. The US, for the most part does not have corporal punishment and death sentences are increasingly rare. Would you catagorize the US as having a low violent crime rate? If you do you're an idiot.

Low crime rates compared to whom?

Because if you compare it with Europe, you'd see that there is more acceptance of death sentences in the US than in Europe. If anything, that's an example that goes with what I just said. Regardless, his assertion that the absence of such punishments is what "allows such crimes to exists" is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Palynka
Low crime rates compared to whom?

Because if you compare it with Europe, you'd see that there is more acceptance of death sentences in the US than in Europe. If anything, that's an example that goes with what I just said. Regardless, his assertion that the absence of such punishments is what "allows such crimes to exists" is ridiculous.

Palynka, out of curiosity I'm wondering what policy or punitive approach would,

in your considered opinion, serve as an effective deterrent to violent crimes.


..................

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Palynka, out of curiosity I'm wondering what policy or punitive approach would,

in your considered opinion, serve as an effective deterrent to violent crimes.


..................

There is more to deterrence than punishment. Punishment may stop some person that wants to commit murder (static deterrence), but a society that teaches that violence is never a solution will have less individuals wanting to commit murder (dynamic deterrence).

25 years is already a pretty good static deterrent. In my opinion if that doesn't stop someone, then execution isn't likely to stop him. But it has the advantage that it also shows that we're not ready to sink to the level of the murderer and kill someone in the name of the law. I believe this to be an important dynamic deterrent.

So the choice is yours. Do you want to quench your blood lust and revenge instincts or do you want a better society?

Originally posted by Palynka
There is more to deterrence than punishment. Punishment may stop some person that wants to commit murder (static deterrence), but a society that teaches that violence is never a solution will have less individuals wanting to commit murder (dynamic deterrence).

25 years is already a pretty good static deterrent. In my opinion if that doesn't stop someone, Do you want to quench your blood lust and revenge instincts or do you want a better society?

Another point to consider is that once someone is dead, valuable information about this person is gone. Information which can be used to understand the human condition and identify potential problems in people early in life.

EDIT: Here is an interesting article I have read some years ago expressing quite well arguments against capital punishment.

http://www.freezerbox.com/archive/article.php?id=233